# Insects not attacking zombies and zombies not attacking insects (cockroaches, spiders, etc.)
**URL:** https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/insects-not-attacking-zombies-and-zombies-not-attacking-insects-cockroaches-spiders-etc/20833
**Category:** The Garage
**Created:** [July 20, 2019, 5:51pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/insects-not-attacking-zombies-and-zombies-not-attacking-insects-cockroaches-spiders-etc/20833 "2019-07-20T17:51:21Z")
**Posts on this page:** 13
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Bio](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Bio)
#### Post date: [July 20, 2019, 5:51pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/insects-not-attacking-zombies-and-zombies-not-attacking-insects-cockroaches-spiders-etc/20833/1 "2019-07-20T17:51:21Z")
For some reason bugs like cockroaches and giant spiders never seem to attack zombies and vice versa. Is this a glitch or intentional?
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### Author:  [@DemAvalon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/DemAvalon)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2019, 12:36am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/insects-not-attacking-zombies-and-zombies-not-attacking-insects-cockroaches-spiders-etc/20833/2 "2019-07-21T00:36:15Z")
It’s intentional apparently the black pudding does not bother to try to zombify things that are not sufficiently big… though they attack fish for some reason… probably an oversight.
And the insects can’t eat them so they don’t bother to kill them, only territorial insects like bees, wasps, and ants will destroy zombos.
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### Author:  [@Bio](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Bio)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2019, 2:50am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/insects-not-attacking-zombies-and-zombies-not-attacking-insects-cockroaches-spiders-etc/20833/3 "2019-07-21T02:50:02Z")
but they’re dog sized though and we have multiple examples of the goo infecting dogs. Do they just not go after Chihuahua sized animals?
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### Author:  [@DemAvalon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/DemAvalon)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2019, 3:19am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/insects-not-attacking-zombies-and-zombies-not-attacking-insects-cockroaches-spiders-etc/20833/4 "2019-07-21T03:19:45Z")
just assume they go for the big dogs I guess…
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### Author:  [@Junknown](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Junknown)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2019, 5:45am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/insects-not-attacking-zombies-and-zombies-not-attacking-insects-cockroaches-spiders-etc/20833/5 "2019-07-21T05:45:38Z")
IIRC most insects and spiders start out neutral to zombies. They will not get into a big fight unless either side provokes the other.
Edit:
A quick check through the JSON files seem to indicate that this is indeed the case.
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### Author:  [@TheMurderUnicorn](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TheMurderUnicorn)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2019, 10:33am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/insects-not-attacking-zombies-and-zombies-not-attacking-insects-cockroaches-spiders-etc/20833/6 "2019-07-21T10:33:55Z")
Indeed, they’re set up that way. I also don’t know that I’d call it an ‘oversight’ seeing as it’s been that way for a while.
This also ultimately works in the player’s favor. If you find insects like spiders or roaches, you can shut them in a building until you’re ready to harvest them for meat.
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### Author:  [@Ragno](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Ragno)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2019, 2:34pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/insects-not-attacking-zombies-and-zombies-not-attacking-insects-cockroaches-spiders-etc/20833/7 "2019-07-21T14:34:57Z")
What does the provocation mean exactly?, i have seen cellar spiders (the brown ones) attacking zombies (and viceversa) without being hit by one, and with cockroaches was the other way around, zombies attacking them without being hit
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### Author:  [@TheMurderUnicorn](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TheMurderUnicorn)
#### Post date: [July 21, 2019, 10:55pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/insects-not-attacking-zombies-and-zombies-not-attacking-insects-cockroaches-spiders-etc/20833/8 "2019-07-21T22:55:43Z")
Zombies are neutral to insects. Spiders are based on the insect faction. Insects are neutral to zombies.
I believe that neutral means they will never attack this faction, though what you’ve said suggests otherwise.
Spiders do have an anger trigger, which will make them hostile if another spider is killed. I don’t think that would make them hostile to zombies, though. Based on what I’m looking at, spiders and zombies should never be fighting, and I couldn’t get them to fight in my testing.
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### Author:  [@gtgiygus](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/gtgiygus)
#### Post date: [July 22, 2019, 12:35am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/insects-not-attacking-zombies-and-zombies-not-attacking-insects-cockroaches-spiders-etc/20833/9 "2019-07-22T00:35:01Z")
I have seen a large battle between acid ants and zombies, but giant cockroaches in the same part of town lived side by side with them. They were fighting off screen before I have ever visited the city before, but I can imagine it would be easy for the zombies to be triggered by an errant acid puddle, perhaps.
You may be differentiating between hive bugs and lone bugs though, maybe?
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### Author:  [@Ragno](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Ragno)
#### Post date: [July 22, 2019, 9:42pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/insects-not-attacking-zombies-and-zombies-not-attacking-insects-cockroaches-spiders-etc/20833/10 "2019-07-22T21:42:12Z")
The spider i have seen to fight between zombies are the basement/house spiders (not the one in the woods), maybe the noise from banging cars, or breaking the webs does affect the anger trigger?
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### Author:  [@TheZoneWizard](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TheZoneWizard)
#### Post date: [July 27, 2019, 8:22pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/insects-not-attacking-zombies-and-zombies-not-attacking-insects-cockroaches-spiders-etc/20833/11 "2019-07-27T20:22:32Z")
From an alien perspective. It would be far better to convert a cockroach than a human. Easier and the fact that humansare more complex, does not make for a better candidate to control.
Imagine what you could build with a fast moving, strong prolific cockroach colony the size of a chow chow.
Humans are the least likely critters and are generally difficult…even zombified. Just watch Cops lol
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### Author:  [@DemAvalon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/DemAvalon)
#### Post date: [July 27, 2019, 8:35pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/insects-not-attacking-zombies-and-zombies-not-attacking-insects-cockroaches-spiders-etc/20833/12 "2019-07-27T20:35:22Z")
I might be misremembering, but I think the original lore said only mammals could get zombified, which is why there were no zombie bugs, birds, and reptiles.
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### Author:  [@Petrol\_jelly](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Petrol_jelly)
#### Post date: [July 27, 2019, 9:48pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/insects-not-attacking-zombies-and-zombies-not-attacking-insects-cockroaches-spiders-etc/20833/13 "2019-07-27T21:48:31Z")
But the lore also said the blob infected insects and arachnids thats why we have giant versions of them now.