# Infection, Inclinations and Going Over the Cliff - A new mutation system

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/infection-inclinations-and-going-over-the-cliff-a-new-mutation-system/4410>\
**Category:** The Drawing Board\
**Created:** [December 6, 2013, 10:21pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/infection-inclinations-and-going-over-the-cliff-a-new-mutation-system/4410 "2013-12-06T22:21:30Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![John\_Candlebury](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/john_candlebury/32/6437_2.png) [@John\_Candlebury](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/John_Candlebury)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 11:55am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/infection-inclinations-and-going-over-the-cliff-a-new-mutation-system/4410/21 "2013-12-07T11:55:49Z")

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You could perhaps also use a modified dialysis machine too regularly filter blob out of your body if there was any advantage to do so?

It could be another reason other than the stemcell machine to clear hospitals?

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**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/cataclysmdda/original/1X/21b5d044e8473b25d0bf905d60477e25f6fbe0cf.png) [@system](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/system)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 12:00pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/infection-inclinations-and-going-over-the-cliff-a-new-mutation-system/4410/22 "2013-12-07T12:00:57Z")

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We need stimpacks only found in hospitals.

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**Author:** ![Lidku](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/lidku/32/161_2.png) [@Lidku](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Lidku)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 12:33pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/infection-inclinations-and-going-over-the-cliff-a-new-mutation-system/4410/23 "2013-12-07T12:33:27Z")

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Oh man I can’t wait for NPC’s to get fixed for monster and faction WARS! Nether Worlders vs The Brotherhood of Obsidian!

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**Author:** ![Binky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f04885/32.png) [@Binky](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Binky)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 12:53pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/infection-inclinations-and-going-over-the-cliff-a-new-mutation-system/4410/24 "2013-12-07T12:53:45Z")

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Not meant in an antagonistic way, but I think you made it sound way too complicated with the activity levels and slime levels.  
Am I right in saying that it’s basically just between 0-100% slime, this grows over time a little bit (and loads more if you take mutagenic stuff/certain actions) and once you reach 100% you become a zombie/netherwhatever?

I think it’s a great mechanic like that, and I don’t think it needs to be more complicated than a straight addition or subtraction to a total slime level - anything else is just convoluted and adds needless complexity in my opinion.

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**Author:** ![anon388770](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e9a140/32.png) [@anon388770](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/anon388770)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 1:10pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/infection-inclinations-and-going-over-the-cliff-a-new-mutation-system/4410/25 "2013-12-07T13:10:39Z")

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Sounds like a great idea. Go for it.

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**Author:** ![GlyphGryph](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/glyphgryph/32/847_2.png) [@GlyphGryph](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/GlyphGryph)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 2:46pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/infection-inclinations-and-going-over-the-cliff-a-new-mutation-system/4410/26 "2013-12-07T14:46:13Z")

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[quote=“Binky, post:24, topic:4410”]Not meant in an antagonistic way, but I think you made it sound way too complicated with the activity levels and slime levels.  
Am I right in saying that it’s basically just between 0-100% slime, this grows over time a little bit (and loads more if you take mutagenic stuff/certain actions) and once you reach 100% you become a zombie/netherwhatever?[/quote]

The actual gameplay difference between that and what I proposed would be… stark. The system I put forward isn’t really all that complex, and the results will hopefully be intuitive and easy for the player to follow.

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**Author:** ![Inadequate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Inadequate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Inadequate)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/infection-inclinations-and-going-over-the-cliff-a-new-mutation-system/4410/27 "2013-12-07T15:36:42Z")

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So if you hit 100% infected, can you still continue mutating down a path? Purifier still increases your infection level, so you could hit netherum ally, purify yourself to mutation-free while still being infected and mutate down another path?

Also, wouldn’t this make rushing for 100% infection one of the fastest ways to safely establish yourself, in an NPC-free game? Kill a few zombies and choke down as much tainted meat as possible without killing yourself, and once you hit 100% infection, you can wander around the rest of the zombie-infested city in relative safety?

I do like the idea of the stark gameplay change of becoming a netherum ally, although I’d like the monster factions to be a little more developed so you could progress from that to joining another monster faction.

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**Author:** ![Belteshazzar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Belteshazzar](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Belteshazzar)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/infection-inclinations-and-going-over-the-cliff-a-new-mutation-system/4410/28 "2013-12-07T18:59:39Z")

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I like it, really do.

> [@Binky](#):
>
> Not meant in an antagonistic way, but I think you made it sound way too complicated with the activity levels and slime levels.

From the sound of it almost none of that info or careful monitoring of ‘slime/activity levels’ would even be available without a lot of testing or equipment, so the actual caluculatory complexity is irrelevant to the player except that they basically know ‘More Slime, more Mutant. All Slime, Zombie time.’

The biggest difference would be mutations occurring over time, rather than immediately, which is fine by me.

> [@Inadequate](#):
>
> Also, wouldn’t this make rushing for 100% infection one of the fastest ways to safely establish yourself, in an NPC-free game? Kill a few zombies and choke down as much tainted meat as possible without killing yourself, and once you hit 100% infection, you can wander around the rest of the zombie-infested city in relative safety?

At this point, I imagine so, but then it’s basically dead by boredom for a lot of people, a lose condition.

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**Author:** ![dwarfkoala](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/dwarfkoala/32/9_2.png) [@dwarfkoala](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/dwarfkoala)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/infection-inclinations-and-going-over-the-cliff-a-new-mutation-system/4410/29 "2013-12-07T19:59:53Z")

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What if somebody wants to play a purist human game?

Would they have to break out the teleporter constantly or go and find some fungaloids to get infected by or is there a way to keep slime levels at a reasonable level?

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**Author:** ![GlyphGryph](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/glyphgryph/32/847_2.png) [@GlyphGryph](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/GlyphGryph)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/infection-inclinations-and-going-over-the-cliff-a-new-mutation-system/4410/30 "2013-12-07T20:04:55Z")

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As I mentioned before, there are three “balance points” you can hit - 30% (infected) is the initial one, but 0%(clean, lasts until any infection source is encountered) and 100%(over the cliff) are both balance points as well.

So long as you avoid infection (and use one of those or another strategy to clean yourself up initially) you will remain clean.

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**Author:** ![Weyrling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7bcc69/32.png) [@Weyrling](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Weyrling)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/infection-inclinations-and-going-over-the-cliff-a-new-mutation-system/4410/31 "2013-12-07T21:26:03Z")

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Sounds like a really interesting mechanic to me, my usual strategies would probably keep me at around 30% infection with occasional massive activity level spikes, so this would mostly change how I play my mutant characters, but it sounds like a good change.

You’ve already said that you and NPCs will have a mutually negative reaction at very high (but not 100%) infection levels, will animals, insects, monsters, or zombies also have a changed perception of you, or do they only react once you pass the cliff?

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**Author:** ![Uneron](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/uneron/32/89_2.png) [@Uneron](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Uneron)\
**Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 9:21pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/infection-inclinations-and-going-over-the-cliff-a-new-mutation-system/4410/32 "2013-12-08T21:21:11Z")

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I like the idea! Instantly sprouting a new set of arms just seems silly. With some amount of lag inbetween chugging a mutagen and the actual mutation I can at least rationalize it as a progressive change afterwards. I also like that it makes the mutation game take significantly longer. That way I can’t just quench a gallon jug of mutagen and purifier to get an ultimate character before its time for dinner.

However, the 100% cliff value should be difficult to reach. When you are at 30% standard the rest of the 70% shouldn’t increase linearly, but logarithmic, so it takes an increasing number of outside factors to drive you towards that limit, once you reach high numbers.

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**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/cataclysmdda/original/1X/21b5d044e8473b25d0bf905d60477e25f6fbe0cf.png) [@system](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/system)\
**Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/infection-inclinations-and-going-over-the-cliff-a-new-mutation-system/4410/33 "2013-12-08T21:24:15Z")

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Maybe the slime dislikes ionized salt? Or radiation? We need ways to lower is so I don’t just go ‘there is on way in hell I’m going to keep my infection level down with the amount of Zeds I’m fightin’.

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**Author:** ![kilozombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e274bd/32.png) [@kilozombie](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kilozombie)\
**Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 9:29pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/infection-inclinations-and-going-over-the-cliff-a-new-mutation-system/4410/34 "2013-12-08T21:29:48Z")

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Important to note:

Being Netherum should protect you from zombies, but not from fungaloids, triffids, robots, etc.

If I’m mutated like a bee, bees should be friendly to me automatically. Nothing else should do that. I like the way mutations work and I want factions to work, too. This system seems fun, but I’m really worried it’ll ruin that feeling of I’m A Monster without the I’m A Demon side bit.

Maybe you could go through a convoluted process to create pure mutagen that would affect your activity level without changing your infection level very much at all?

Because… ugh.

I don’t want to go over the cliff because I wanted to mutate, I want to go over the cliff when I /deliberately/ try to, or get in a situation in which it’s unavoidable. Being friendly to zeds sounds boring as shit. Let me get my ant/triffid army and fight the towns, please.

re: salt

That would be hilarious, and actually pretty intuitive. 'I have blob in me? Maybe it’s like a slug, haha. Holy shit that worked!’

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**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/cataclysmdda/original/1X/21b5d044e8473b25d0bf905d60477e25f6fbe0cf.png) [@system](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/system)\
**Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/infection-inclinations-and-going-over-the-cliff-a-new-mutation-system/4410/35 "2013-12-08T21:31:54Z")

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[quote=“kilozombie, post:34, topic:4410”]Important note:  
If I’m mutated like a bee, bees should be friendly to me automatically.[/quote]

Yes pls.

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**Author:** ![kilozombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e274bd/32.png) [@kilozombie](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kilozombie)\
**Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 9:34pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/infection-inclinations-and-going-over-the-cliff-a-new-mutation-system/4410/36 "2013-12-08T21:34:15Z")

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I can’t see it being too hard to implement either, since we have mutation dreams and everything. If you’re a level 1 bee mutant, they should be reluctant to attack (like a minor version of Animal Empathy). Level 2 bee, they’ll ignore you unless you get very close. Level 3 (full blown)? They’ll join you if you try to talk to them.

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**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/cataclysmdda/original/1X/21b5d044e8473b25d0bf905d60477e25f6fbe0cf.png) [@system](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/system)\
**Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 9:36pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/infection-inclinations-and-going-over-the-cliff-a-new-mutation-system/4410/37 "2013-12-08T21:36:23Z")

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So I can communicate with my bee friends and gather an army for a new hive?!?

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**Author:** ![kilozombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e274bd/32.png) [@kilozombie](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kilozombie)\
**Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 9:38pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/infection-inclinations-and-going-over-the-cliff-a-new-mutation-system/4410/38 "2013-12-08T21:38:25Z")

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Exactly.

Also, Edmund would be BFFs with all the triffids.

It’d just make mutation more fun, IMO.

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**Author:** ![Nickboom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nickboom](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Nickboom)\
**Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/infection-inclinations-and-going-over-the-cliff-a-new-mutation-system/4410/39 "2013-12-08T21:54:03Z")

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One way that I suggested to lower infection levels is some sort of fungal medicine. Considering the fungi can nutralize slime it makes sense that if you got some of their spores you could treat your self with a high enough medical (or cooking) skill.

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**Author:** ![kilozombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e274bd/32.png) [@kilozombie](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kilozombie)\
**Post date:** [December 8, 2013, 9:55pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/infection-inclinations-and-going-over-the-cliff-a-new-mutation-system/4410/40 "2013-12-08T21:55:23Z")

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> [@Nickboom](#):
>
> One way that I suggested to lower infection levels is some sort of fungal medicine. Considering the fungi can nutralize slime it makes sense that if you got some of their spores you could treat your self with a high enough medical (or cooking) skill.

It would logically make sense if labs had some prototype versions of this. They wouldn’t be able to remove it too well, but you know-- they were researching the slime, they’d have at least TRIED to remove it.

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