# \[idea\] Plans and air/sky transport

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/idea-plans-and-air-sky-transport/19779>\
**Category:** The Drawing Board\
**Created:** [April 21, 2019, 10:36pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/idea-plans-and-air-sky-transport/19779 "2019-04-21T22:36:28Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Mr.Denton](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/mr.denton/32/3156_2.png) [@Mr.Denton](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Mr.Denton)\
**Post date:** [April 21, 2019, 10:36pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/idea-plans-and-air-sky-transport/19779/1 "2019-04-21T22:36:28Z")

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Since we recently got changes to the sky level map, AKA Z LVL 1-2 etc

We now have a entire level which consist of **99,99% empty air and space**.

In theory it would be quite simple.

Just like the new mainline boats which works on [WATER] tiles, how about one that works on [AIR] tiles?

The new type would be able to stand on the normal ground, or any level it was constructed on, and fly up levels to a set level depending on its type, if there is no roof blocking it’s way. If standing on solid ground it would only be able to go up, and not move across the ground. And as the parts would be fragile and the mass allowance is limiting you greatly, you **woudnt** be able to make a mix of air and ground transport.

_We could have different types_

**JET** : it would be very fast (min 300-400) but need special fuel type and be very expansive to fly, medium mass allowance

**Rotors** : Would be cheaper but much slower, heavy mass allowed, battery or fuel

**Ballons** : Cheap but very slow and would need some sort of propeller, or sails. And would only allow for very low masss

_Would make for a nice endgame occupation_

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**Author:** ![Rose](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/rose/32/1963_2.png) [@Rose](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Rose)\
**Post date:** [April 21, 2019, 11:13pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/idea-plans-and-air-sky-transport/19779/2 "2019-04-21T23:13:48Z")

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Would make, but jet engines are really only suitable for airplanes that, aside from VTOL-capable ones, need a runway. And helicopters, while being more versatile in a post-apocalyptic world, burn A LOT of fuel. Like a lot. Like a whole lot. As far as I know, electric helicopters do exist, but they have a very limited hauling capability.  
What we REALLY need are interstates. Flying around in a tin can is so expensive, that probably nobody is going to afford that, but a literal tank with a huge dozer blade (hi scorpion) can ram its way through a clogged highway, zombies and animals while hauling ridiculous amounts of cargo and being solar powered.  
So, airplanes are out of the question for CDDA, in my opinion. Helicopters are niche, but viable in those niches as long as you have an oil refinery in your pocket. Hot air/helium balloons are quite easy and cheap, but really do not have a lot of purpose for them, aside for scouting, maybe.

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**Author:** ![crazykiddeath](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/crazykiddeath/32/5709_2.png) [@crazykiddeath](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/crazykiddeath)\
**Post date:** [April 21, 2019, 11:16pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/idea-plans-and-air-sky-transport/19779/3 "2019-04-21T23:16:40Z")

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A blimp base would be quite fun 🤔

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**Author:** ![Rose](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/rose/32/1963_2.png) [@Rose](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Rose)\
**Post date:** [April 21, 2019, 11:18pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/idea-plans-and-air-sky-transport/19779/4 "2019-04-21T23:18:31Z")

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It really would be fun, especially during a storm.  
Are the characters capable of building strong enough docking masts yet?  
Because actually any large enough lighter-than air aircraft is going to need a nice docking mast. And that means using HUGE steel beams bolted/riveted together at huge heights. Scrap metal pieces won’t do the trick this time.

But maybe skyscrapers will?

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**Author:** ![crazykiddeath](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/crazykiddeath/32/5709_2.png) [@crazykiddeath](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/crazykiddeath)\
**Post date:** [April 21, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/idea-plans-and-air-sky-transport/19779/5 "2019-04-21T23:22:14Z")

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They were making them as early as 1911 so probably.

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**Author:** ![Rose](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/rose/32/1963_2.png) [@Rose](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Rose)\
**Post date:** [April 21, 2019, 11:25pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/idea-plans-and-air-sky-transport/19779/6 "2019-04-21T23:25:04Z")

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They had a steel industry by 1911. By C:DDA you have a welder and some scrap from a junkyard. Good luck rebuilding the world with that.

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**Author:** ![crazykiddeath](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/crazykiddeath/32/5709_2.png) [@crazykiddeath](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/crazykiddeath)\
**Post date:** [April 21, 2019, 11:28pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/idea-plans-and-air-sky-transport/19779/7 "2019-04-21T23:28:50Z")

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You can build a steam engine from scratch, piece together tanks and build metal boats, a 12 foot pole on a boat shouldn’t be that hard.

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**Author:** ![Rose](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/rose/32/1963_2.png) [@Rose](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Rose)\
**Post date:** [April 21, 2019, 11:32pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/idea-plans-and-air-sky-transport/19779/8 "2019-04-21T23:32:28Z")

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Such a tank is actually quite realistic in a way that probably a zombie dog can chew its way through the hull if given enough time. As for a blimp base, we’re talking about Graf Zeppelin sized airships. Those guys are going to need massive masts, since fierce winds exert high forced upon the tied ships.

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**Author:** ![Rose](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/rose/32/1963_2.png) [@Rose](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Rose)\
**Post date:** [April 21, 2019, 11:35pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/idea-plans-and-air-sky-transport/19779/9 "2019-04-21T23:35:42Z")

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Picture related. Lower masts are possible, but are still massive.

 ![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/cataclysmdda/original/2X/2/250451aa851362cbf5e4bb4380239e358471e24c.jpeg)

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**Author:** ![crazykiddeath](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/crazykiddeath/32/5709_2.png) [@crazykiddeath](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/crazykiddeath)\
**Post date:** [April 21, 2019, 11:36pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/idea-plans-and-air-sky-transport/19779/10 "2019-04-21T23:36:35Z")

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Why do you assume it has to be so big? you can make a mobile base as small as 5x4 if you don’t feel the need for too much cargo space.

edit: that’s totally enclosed too

edit 2: that would give you 2x3 or 6 spaces for internals so you can actually go smaller or give yourself a space in back that lets you hide from view and have a small cab to drive from.

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**Author:** ![TheMurderUnicorn](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/themurderunicorn/32/5706_2.png) [@TheMurderUnicorn](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TheMurderUnicorn)\
**Post date:** [April 21, 2019, 11:42pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/idea-plans-and-air-sky-transport/19779/11 "2019-04-21T23:42:29Z")

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Bah, I don’t know. Erased some negative comment I left. It would be neat to be in game, and my questioning the realism of a survivor learning to pilot/build an aircraft really cuts down on the fun aspect.

I think they’re probably implementable right now, but I suspect it would be a large project.

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**Author:** ![mlangsdorf](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/mlangsdorf/32/2462_2.png) [@mlangsdorf](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/mlangsdorf)\
**Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 1:05am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/idea-plans-and-air-sky-transport/19779/12 "2019-04-22T01:05:57Z")

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Please submit the necessary changes to the vehicle code to enable this:

- vehicle parts for gas bags, wings, propellers, and jet engines
- code to calculate static and aerodynamic lift and to allow the player to use the ‘\<’ and ‘\>’ keys to ascend and descend their vehicle when combined lift is greater than vehicle weight.
- modifications of the air drag code to account for gas bags, wings, etc.

I don’t think at this time it’s necessary to model angle-of-attack in the lift calculations.

I recommend starting with tethered hot air balloons since the math is a lot easier and it would be a good proof of concept.

Please ping me on the discord if you have any implementation questions. I’ll help you debug as I have time but I don’t have time to write this myself.

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**Author:** ![Trigon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/trigon/32/2668_2.png) [@Trigon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Trigon)\
**Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 6:04am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/idea-plans-and-air-sky-transport/19779/13 "2019-04-22T06:04:11Z")

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Now if I can burn my house down by smoking in bed then will I be able to turn the better part of the tri-state area into a fireball by smoking on a blimp?

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**Author:** ![crazykiddeath](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/crazykiddeath/32/5709_2.png) [@crazykiddeath](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/crazykiddeath)\
**Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 8:19am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/idea-plans-and-air-sky-transport/19779/14 "2019-04-22T08:19:55Z")

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Depends on if you use hydrogen or helium I guess. 😁

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**Author:** ![Ragno](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/ragno/32/5935_2.png) [@Ragno](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Ragno)\
**Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 10:59am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/idea-plans-and-air-sky-transport/19779/15 "2019-04-22T10:59:57Z")

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this would be a good way to avoid those forests \>.\>

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**Author:** ![Mr.Denton](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/mr.denton/32/3156_2.png) [@Mr.Denton](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Mr.Denton)\
**Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 5:35pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/idea-plans-and-air-sky-transport/19779/16 "2019-04-22T17:35:25Z")

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And would allow for having bases in many differcent places

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**Author:** ![Hof1993](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/hof1993/32/6251_2.png) [@Hof1993](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Hof1993)\
**Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 6:16pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/idea-plans-and-air-sky-transport/19779/17 "2019-04-22T18:16:47Z")

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Would this require a new pilot skill or use the driving skill.

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**Author:** ![Mr.Denton](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/mr.denton/32/3156_2.png) [@Mr.Denton](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Mr.Denton)\
**Post date:** [April 22, 2019, 9:44pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/idea-plans-and-air-sky-transport/19779/18 "2019-04-22T21:44:17Z")

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Driving, something like 8-10, any less and you would risk crashing, depending on the type.

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**Author:** ![draghi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/draghi/32/11781_2.png) [@draghi](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/draghi)\
**Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 9:20am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/idea-plans-and-air-sky-transport/19779/19 "2019-04-23T09:20:36Z")

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vehicles like these seem really tall, how would that work if vehicles cand only span one single Z-level? shouldn’t that be implemented as well?

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**Author:** ![mlangsdorf](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/mlangsdorf/32/2462_2.png) [@mlangsdorf](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/mlangsdorf)\
**Post date:** [April 23, 2019, 12:21pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/idea-plans-and-air-sky-transport/19779/20 "2019-04-23T12:21:19Z")

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It would nice if vehicles spanned multiple z-levels, and at some point I’m going to make that happen. It would be great if someone else did the work first, though.

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