How do you guys play without some savescumming?

[TooDAMNMuch]

the problem i see with that method is would you be able to beat the turret after running away from it once or twice since you’ve given it more practice.

it certainly probably wouldn’t be realistic for it to take as long to train the skill as the PC.

[TheZoneWizard]

My only turret gripe is the absurd placement of turrets in a lab, that do not protect anything at all.

Walking around a benign corner to get murdered is something damn mean spirited and piss poor design. Those turrets that are stationed in the middle a n open space behind a fence. They serve no purpose at all save to piss on the player. It is less realistic and annoying. Kinda like stashing gun turrets in a toilet bowl for a “SURPRISE B!T*H!!! pew pew pew!! ” dick move…

[hydroplatypus]

The ones at the enterance, and in armouries make sense. Especially as they only exist if you break in, being removed if the door is either hacked or opened with a keycard. Maybe if there was more placement like that it would be a bit better.

[TheZoneWizard]

This I completely agree with. I have no problem with a logic to something. Even the road blocks kinda make sense. We do not know what was the threat for that defense. But propping turrets in areas for random murder is illogical.

[faefux]

I agree with this too, my thinking is that more than anything else Turrets would have been a deterant, largely, not /actually/ expected to murder people in many situations.

Though, having said that, we don’t actually know when or under what siutation they were deployed.

[JayThirtySeven]

Just wanna throw out there it would take like 45 seconds to make a “No Turrets” blacklist mod.

And for the original topic: Sometimes I save scum and sometimes I don’t. This is usually something I decide before I start. Sometimes I generate a world on default settings, use few or no mods, and commit to dying whenever I die. Other times I generate worlds with weird settings, easier or harder options, lots of mods, and just do whatever I feel like including scumming when I die.

One of the reasons I love CDDA so much is that it’s always the kind of game I want to play because I can just mod it (or not). It’s the same reason I have way too many hours into Skyrim, New Vegas, and Fallout 4; they’re always new and always custom tailored to be fun for me through the magic of mods.

[Kyti]

Safe Mode Off, creep in to zombie infested areas and try to draw them out one at a time, usually end up saying “screw it” at some point and dying when I become surrounded on all sides by a massive horde, reset world and start over with new character. While I don’t go back to reload before a death or something, I DID make my own custom character class for funzies, because I got tired of not being able to carry anything if I didn’t find a backpack right away and it was time-consuming to choose all the traits and stuff that I wanted every time I have to restart. New class starts with a bunch of survivor gear, a couple bionics relevant to my character’s backstory, and a few traits I like to take every time, so all I have to do is adjust stats, name my character, and go. It took a while before I realized there was even a way to reload to before a death, so I just got used to starting over every time.

[faefux]

I got tired of not being able to carry anything if I didn’t find a backpack right away and it was time-consuming to choose all the traits and stuff that I wanted every time I have to restart.

Hit ! at the end of chargen to save your build as a template.

[Kyti]

Haha, yeah, I’ve done that before. Forgot about that. x.x

[TheZoneWizard]

Was not against turrets. I’m against illogical areas for their placement.

[JayThirtySeven]

I mean, you mainly seem to be saying that they put the turrets in the wrong places to repel invaders and as a result they keep killing you when you invade. If I wanted to defend a lab with turrets I don’t think I’d leave them all in obvious locations.

[crazykiddeath]

Tbf, I think it goes both ways. putting them in both expected (an armoury for example) and unexpected places but at the same time would YOU feel comfortable working in a place with turrets in your quarters and toilets?

Turrets under someone elses control I might add.

[JayThirtySeven]

Sure that could be pretty unsettling but these are also labs where they are experimenting on actual zombies and have automated dissector machines all over the place. I assume there was some system to prevent the turrets from attacking researchers so they might actually seem like one of the less dangerous features of the workplace.

I don’t actually have a strong opinion of where the turrets should or shouldn’t be. Procedural generation tends to place things in odd locations so I never really questioned it. Turrets placed in random rooms around the lab are manageable as long as you peek through doors before entering, but it wouldn’t bother me if they were removed or replaced with something else.

Maybe the most amusing solution would be to add lore about it. Like you find memos or emails saying “Does anybody know why security division installed a turret in my office this morning? They told me it’s completely safe but I swear it keeps aiming at me when I turn away.”

[crazykiddeath]

Well, we all know how well that worked out
But I actually agree and I’m always for adding a bit more lore to flesh the world out.
“How can anyone use the toilets with that turret watching? the bloody thing is hell on my nerves”

[JayThirtySeven]

[TheZoneWizard]

Not only do I not say this. I have no idea why you could misconstrue what my contention is.

Placing turrets in place to guard stuff = logical.

Placing turrets in a hallway bottleneck guarding a high loot area = logical.

Placing roadblocks = logical.

Placing a turret behind a fence in a far corner of the lab complex, guarding nothing and behind a fence you cannot enter short of bashing down the fence or climbing over it. Turret guards literally nothing and shoots you dead 1 tile coming round the corner = wtf??? This is flatly bad design.
Plus random small rooms behind glass doing this same thing is not guarding either. Nobody no matter how paranoid would do this. The turret is a Murder Mcguffin. Which is also unrealistic.

Make manhacks float all throughout the halls = logical.

Make robots running around the halls besides trapped in rooms = logical.

1 computer guarded by a turret is kinda ok…why we would need more than one in the entire lab…makes even less sense than having only 1 that does the same thing.Those turret rooms are far too redundant to make sense and serve out a purpose to some degree for up world map locales in a mission imposible esque sort of room. But…labs could be be better with only 1 of those rooms. Unless the computers in those rooms could perform more than one function at random of course.

[JayThirtySeven]

I stand by my statement; when the turret killed you it proved that it was an effective place for a turret. The turret was intended to kill intruders and it did. Mission accomplished.

The content of this game is random. Sometimes it doesn’t make sense and sometimes it’s not fair. Death is permanent and often sudden. You can call it bad design or illogical or whatever you want but that’s the kind of game it is. If you want a “well designed” experience you always have the option play a different game where the details of the experience were actually designed by someone.

You also have the option to make a mod or submit a PR or take some other tangible action to “fix” whatever you think is wrong in the game. Maybe once you do the work and people can observe the results they’ll decide to pull it into the main game. Or maybe they won’t.

[TheZoneWizard]

I see this response as trolling more than constructive. Taking a constructive critique of the game that could use a change to make it better isn’t a bad thing. I see from time to time the same excuse to shut people up when the forum is to point out such aspects and to discuss openly how to make something better.

I’ve made my points. You have not. Either bring up a counter point or stop sniping with semantics please.

[JayThirtySeven]

You haven’t really made a point so much as you have complained about something that has been in the game for years. Nobody else cares, and dozens of active contributors never bothered to change it because it’s not actually a problem. Procedural content will do weird things. It’s part of the challenge and the appeal of the game. If you try to prevent it from doing “illogical” things you’ll just make the game predictable and therefore boring.

If you think you can make the labs seem more logical without making them too easy or predictable go right ahead. If people like your changes they will get included in the game. If you don’t have the time or skill to do the actual work, start with a new thread in The Drawing Board section and lay out a clear plan for the changes you want to see. If people like your plan they might make it happen.

[BrokenMirror]

I save scum largely cause the way Cataclysm is designed makes it a very dull Rogue-Like for me, but a fun RPG/Exploration game. Course, I’ve also never bought into the nonsense about how save-scumming makes any achievements hollow.

Plus crashes have taught me to be a bit paranoid about saves and backups.

And in regards to the Turrets, “Turrets placed in bizarre spots” and “Aims for Realism” only work together if the people in charge of Turret Placement sometimes made monetarily wasteful choices (Like putting a turret in the Janitor’s Closet but not at the front entrance).