# High caliber weapons should damage reinforced glass

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/high-caliber-weapons-should-damage-reinforced-glass/6200>\
**Category:** The Drawing Board\
**Created:** [May 20, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/high-caliber-weapons-should-damage-reinforced-glass/6200 "2014-05-20T21:58:00Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![TheGrifter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@TheGrifter](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TheGrifter)\
**Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 9:58pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/high-caliber-weapons-should-damage-reinforced-glass/6200/1 "2014-05-20T21:58:00Z")

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I just fired off several rounds into the reinforced glass of a science lab window, and it’s unscratched. Not a dent. I like to think that if I shot it again and again, reinforced glass would break. There’s no such thing as bullet-proof glass. Only bullet resistant.

Now I’m not saying that a person ought to be able to plow through glass with a .22 long rifle round. That’d be ridiculous.

But with one of those knock-off rifles which are straight out of the movie Aliens, they ought to carve through the window after a good couple of bursts.

Not metal, mind you, the way I picture the metal doors are like big blast doors almost. But the reinforced windows ought to be vulnerable to repeated heavy attack.

Anyone else think this?

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**Author:** ![FunsizeNinja123](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/funsizeninja123/32/118_2.png) [@FunsizeNinja123](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/FunsizeNinja123)\
**Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 10:12pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/high-caliber-weapons-should-damage-reinforced-glass/6200/2 "2014-05-20T22:12:49Z")

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Nah, it’s near future so I’m sure they applied some of lets say… their armor making skills into windows. Labs are no joke, though. Serious stuff being researched.

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**Author:** ![TheGrifter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@TheGrifter](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TheGrifter)\
**Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 10:16pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/high-caliber-weapons-should-damage-reinforced-glass/6200/3 "2014-05-20T22:16:33Z")

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That serious stuff broke containment, and I’ll bet their kinetic energy doesn’t match that of several volleys of high caliber rounds.

Now I’m not saying that it ought to be as fragile as regular glass, regular glass breaks in a single hit. But if someone has the gumption to bring a high-powered automatic rifle down to the window, point blank destruction style, it ought to do more than leave a scratch.

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**Author:** ![FunsizeNinja123](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/funsizeninja123/32/118_2.png) [@FunsizeNinja123](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/FunsizeNinja123)\
**Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 11:21pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/high-caliber-weapons-should-damage-reinforced-glass/6200/4 "2014-05-20T23:21:56Z")

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Well I’m sure it might break after a mag of .50 cals.

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**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/cataclysmdda/original/1X/21b5d044e8473b25d0bf905d60477e25f6fbe0cf.png) [@system](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/system)\
**Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 12:11am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/high-caliber-weapons-should-damage-reinforced-glass/6200/5 "2014-05-21T00:11:44Z")

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I’d have the minumum be around 2 mags of 7.62x39.

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**Author:** ![TheGrifter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@TheGrifter](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TheGrifter)\
**Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 12:29am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/high-caliber-weapons-should-damage-reinforced-glass/6200/6 "2014-05-21T00:29:00Z")

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> [@sovietspyder](#):
>
> I’d have the minumum be around 2 mags of 7.62x39.

Sounds about right to me. The soviets did not fuck around with their rifles. They meant business.

Damned M16 and it’s jam-prone lightweight .223 or .556 rounds. A whole nation bamboozled into thinking it would kick ass in 'Nam, but the VC proved otherwise. Whether or not the rounds tumbled didn’t matter much in the early days. Sure, it’s accurate, but severely underpowered. But I digress.

.30-06 might do the job after a while, but you’d kill your ear-drums before you killed the glass.

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**Author:** ![Datanazush](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/datanazush/32/1055_2.png) [@Datanazush](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Datanazush)\
**Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 6:25am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/high-caliber-weapons-should-damage-reinforced-glass/6200/7 "2014-05-21T06:25:44Z")

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> [@TheGrifter](#):
>
> [quote=“sovietspyder, post:5, topic:6200”]I’d have the minumum be around 2 mags of 7.62x39.

Sounds about right to me. The soviets did not fuck around with their rifles. They meant business.

Damned M16 and it’s jam-prone lightweight .223 or .556 rounds. A whole nation bamboozled into thinking it would kick ass in 'Nam, but the VC proved otherwise. Whether or not the rounds tumbled didn’t matter much in the early days. Sure, it’s accurate, but severely underpowered. But I digress.

.30-06 might do the job after a while, but you’d kill your ear-drums before you killed the glass.[/quote]

ACTUALLY The AK wasn’t much more inaccurate than an M16, which had an average accuracy of about 2 inches of divergence at 100 yards, or 2 MoA. The AKM has an accuracy of about 3 MoA, only 1 inch more, the difference comes from it being much harder to handle full auto.  
That said, in things actually pertinent to the discussion, remember that reinforced glass is not usually glass. It’s generally a very thick, very dense form of plastic, so it requires a lot more effort to break than a pane of glass.

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**Author:** ![Bumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@Bumpkin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Bumpkin)\
**Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 6:32am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/high-caliber-weapons-should-damage-reinforced-glass/6200/8 "2014-05-21T06:32:23Z")

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Isn’t the ingame reinforced glass supposed to be reinforced with metal wire? So even if you did smash it with gunfire you’d need to take a hacksaw or boltcutters to it afterwards.

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**Author:** ![i2amroy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/i2amroy/32/909_2.png) [@i2amroy](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/i2amroy)\
**Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 11:09pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/high-caliber-weapons-should-damage-reinforced-glass/6200/9 "2014-05-22T23:09:14Z")

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This is basically because currently terrain doesn’t store a “damage accumulated” variable anywhere in it (which we should probably add some form of eventually, you just have to be careful or you can add a lot of memory size to your save files). This means that if you don’t break the reinforced glass, even if your shot goes completely through it (which can happen in certain damage ranges) then it’s still treated as perfectly fine for any future shots. Ideally in the future damage will accumulate, so that you could potentially land several shots on the same window to shatter it even if one or two by themselves wouldn’t.

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**Author:** ![Khrysanth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@Khrysanth](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Khrysanth)\
**Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 11:27pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/high-caliber-weapons-should-damage-reinforced-glass/6200/10 "2014-05-22T23:27:21Z")

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On the flip side, an accumulated damage tracking would mean that those minor zombie attacks that don’t breach your defenses will eventually break through.

This is not a bad thing.

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**Author:** ![FunsizeNinja123](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/funsizeninja123/32/118_2.png) [@FunsizeNinja123](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/FunsizeNinja123)\
**Post date:** [May 22, 2014, 11:30pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/high-caliber-weapons-should-damage-reinforced-glass/6200/11 "2014-05-22T23:30:21Z")

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But I don’t want to spend an hour or some saving when I already have a huge save file. I can barely save fast enough when someone needs to use my computer already.

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/high-caliber-weapons-should-damage-reinforced-glass/6200/12 "2014-05-23T00:38:36Z")

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Are you using 0.A? Saves in experimental are almost instant, especially if you have auto save on.

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**Author:** ![RAM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9bd4f/32.png) [@RAM](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/RAM)\
**Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 1:07am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/high-caliber-weapons-should-damage-reinforced-glass/6200/13 "2014-05-23T01:07:25Z")

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Well, you could do it as a probability. If there is a .2% chance of destroying a thing each time you hit it, then it can be destroyed by one lucky shot, but probably won’t, and it might take 5000, but it will generally take a lot of damage but eventually collapse. Or you could have it reset if it leaves the reality bubble and have its health not exist until it takes damage. You could have it change into a different object, going from perfect glass to damaged glass to holey glass to battered glass to shredded glass to open space…

How is it currently handled when it takes multiple pipe-bombs to destroy something?

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**Author:** ![i2amroy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/i2amroy/32/909_2.png) [@i2amroy](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/i2amroy)\
**Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 1:09am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/high-caliber-weapons-should-damage-reinforced-glass/6200/14 "2014-05-23T01:09:48Z")

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RNG chance, IIRC. It’s just that the current setup has fairly high thresholds, above which you have a good chance of destroying it and below which you can’t harm it at all instead of a scaling percentage chance.

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 1:33am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/high-caliber-weapons-should-damage-reinforced-glass/6200/15 "2014-05-23T01:33:54Z")

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You can do it probabilistically, but sometimes that just doesn’t make any sense. shooting at things is especially bad about that, since bullets will pass through a lot of stuff without doing extensive damage, the holes have to accumulate for total destruction to happen.

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**Author:** ![StopSignal](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/stopsignal/32/1923_2.png) [@StopSignal](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/StopSignal)\
**Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 1:39am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/high-caliber-weapons-should-damage-reinforced-glass/6200/16 "2014-05-23T01:39:40Z")

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Hmm… what about, when it’s damaged in any way, like “smashed”, the thing that calculates the damage is frozen for a few turns, and so the damage value accumulates? When it accumulates enough, it destroys it, if not, the number is erased and the glass is reset.

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 2:18am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/high-caliber-weapons-should-damage-reinforced-glass/6200/17 "2014-05-23T02:18:22Z")

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> [@StopSignal](#):
>
> Hmm… what about, when it’s damaged in any way, like “smashed”, the thing that calculates the damage is frozen for a few turns, and so the damage value accumulates? When it accumulates enough, it destroys it, if not, the number is erased and the glass is reset.

That implies just as much overhead as making it persistent.

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**Author:** ![RAM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9bd4f/32.png) [@RAM](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/RAM)\
**Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 3:54am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/high-caliber-weapons-should-damage-reinforced-glass/6200/18 "2014-05-23T03:54:00Z")

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You could combine everyone’s ideas. Give it a chance to be converted into a damaged version of itself. You could also give bullets more penetration through damaged versions, which could adjust the probability of changing state. So… Bullet hits glass, bullet damage is reduced and glass has a chance of being damaged, bullet hits next layer of glass, deals less damage, lower chance of converting glass. It doesn’t really fix the issues, but might make them less obvious…

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**Author:** ![Greiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8797f3/32.png) [@Greiger](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Greiger)\
**Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 5:36am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/high-caliber-weapons-should-damage-reinforced-glass/6200/19 "2014-05-23T05:36:23Z")

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I kinda figured the reinforced glass was actually some kind of futuretech stuff. We already have something like a transparent aluminum that according to Wikipedia can withstand shots from .50 cal armor piercing rounds.

Is it possible for terrain to determine what kind of shots are hitting it? If so perhaps it could be completely impervious to traditional ammo, considering how resistant military grade stuff is to conventional ammo as it stands now it’s not hard to imagine in 30+ years stuff in super secret government funded science labs would be effectively invulnerable to conventional ammo. (As in it would take a few hundred rounds of high caliber AP to break in a meaningful way)

But the stuff could easily shatter like regular glass if blasted by laser, plasma, or railgun ammo. I imagine the same techniques that make glass bullet resistant wouldn’t work at all against directed energy weapons like plasma and lasers, while railguns just hit so much harder than conventional bullets it just punches through.

As for the critters breaking containment, ever encounter a flaming eye underground? Those suckers can easily punch a quarter mile long tunnel big enough to walk through in solid rock, (as well as solid metal walls, reinforced glass, your soul…) and they can do it once every few seconds, containment was probably breached the moment they brought one of those home.

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [May 23, 2014, 6:29am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/high-caliber-weapons-should-damage-reinforced-glass/6200/20 "2014-05-23T06:29:19Z")

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Actually lasers have a special check, they’ll pass through transparent walls without damaging them.