# Hidden dangers

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/hidden-dangers/8366>\
**Category:** The Drawing Board\
**Created:** [December 20, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/hidden-dangers/8366 "2014-12-20T19:15:51Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![EditorRUS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9fc29f/32.png) [@EditorRUS](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/EditorRUS)\
**Post date:** [December 20, 2014, 7:15pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/hidden-dangers/8366/1 "2014-12-20T19:15:51Z")

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I am sure something like this was proposed once a time, but whatever.

So the idea is simple: cataclysm should have more hidden dangers, not only obvious ones.  
At this moment you can just remember where radiation can be met (toxin waste dumps, broken atomic items, craters as map extra, etc.) and avoid them. That’s not a way to go.  
According to the backstory, portals throw some weird chemicals out in the air, these chemicals cause some weird shit like extreme changing of temperature, radiation out from nowhere and stuff.  
Now, let’s imagine we have a city. There is a city center. A city center is supposed to be more dangerous place with better loot, isn’t it? But what do we have now? City centers just have more dangerous zombies. The problem is that zombies might be avoided by raiding at night or just by grinding enough skill to deal with them easily. And I propose to make extra !!FUN!! by making spawning that “weird” shit near city center. The nearer it’s to the center - the more dangerous this stuff should be.  
Moreover, I think that’s not fair that you can just find an artifact by being lucky, take it without lots of problems. I guess “weird shit” MUST be near any artifact in quite huge area.  
And of course that makes an use for those useless portals

Obstacles:  
Shock/Fire/Toxic vents  
Background radiation (may be extremely deadly)  
Random explosions  
Temperature insanity (extremely cold or extremely hot local climate)  
Always some weather (always sunny, always cloudy, always rainy, always ACID RAINY :D)  
Local features (for example you can get “stim” effect out from nowhere just for being in such an area, or slimy for no reason, or start hallucinating)  
The most robust one: some tiles of map may REGENERATE and become something else. If you see that there’s a gun store on the map, don’t be surprised when you find some random house instead.

Where that stuff happens:

1. Near to city centers
2. Near to an artifact spawning place
3. Near to a random spawned portal
4. Near to map extras like Helicopter Crash, Random Crater and stuff
5. In random places

As I said before, the nearer it’s to source, the more dangerous everything around it.

I think that will change everything: Night Raids will be useless without being prepared for everything, you can “scout” areas and suspect artifacts (triangulation FTW) and stuff.

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**Author:** ![vache](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ea666f/32.png) [@vache](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/vache)\
**Post date:** [December 20, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/hidden-dangers/8366/2 "2014-12-20T19:19:11Z")

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Something like this can be done with the zones, which are my next priority after computers.

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**Author:** ![Muaddib](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/muaddib/32/392_2.png) [@Muaddib](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Muaddib)\
**Post date:** [December 20, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/hidden-dangers/8366/3 "2014-12-20T20:25:20Z")

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Cheeki breeki, I like your style.

Also, I recently found a snake anomaly (?) inside a 2-story hotel one time. Three rooms were reduced to rubble, shadow snakes spawning everywhere, and in the middle a ; something that revealed the map.

RNG trickery I guess? Either way, I think that’s what you’re wanting right?

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**Author:** ![StopSignal](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/stopsignal/32/1923_2.png) [@StopSignal](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/StopSignal)\
**Post date:** [December 20, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/hidden-dangers/8366/4 "2014-12-20T20:37:28Z")

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I thought you were going to propose random radiation in some places, but this is just as awesome as that! I can only say that i love this idea.

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**Author:** ![EditorRUS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9fc29f/32.png) [@EditorRUS](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/EditorRUS)\
**Post date:** [December 20, 2014, 9:24pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/hidden-dangers/8366/5 "2014-12-20T21:24:01Z")

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> RNG trickery I guess? Either way, I think that's what you're wanting right?

It's more about unexpected (read !!FUNNY!!) stuff. At this moment places you recently discovered will remain the same. There is no reason to check them again. Moreover, if you know game mechanics quite well - you can always imagine what dangers are there. Just because the map is too static. Every change is made by player and that's boring. Knowing how RNG generates your map, you can easily avoid most of deathtraps, falling to them only because of negligence. You never expect previously discovered area to change. That's the problem.

Roadblock map tile? Ok, there will be military-grade vehicles, some turrets.  
Some lab map tile colored dark blue? There is stairs down.  
Lab map tile with 4 rooms? They may have turret room (with a turret and a console with maps), store room (wtih chemicals) and so on.  
You know what you might get at certain map tiles. You don’t except them to have some random traps you can’t notice instantly, and especially you don’t expect them to be not what you think.

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**Author:** ![KA101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/278dde/32.png) [@KA101](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/KA101)\
**Post date:** [December 20, 2014, 11:03pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/hidden-dangers/8366/6 "2014-12-20T23:03:12Z")

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[quote=“EditorRUS, post:5, topic:8366”]

> RNG trickery I guess? Either way, I think that’s what you’re wanting right?

  
It’s more about unexpected (read !!FUNNY!!) stuff. At this moment places you recently discovered will remain the same. There is no reason to check them again. Moreover, if you know game mechanics quite well - you can always imagine what dangers are there. Just because the map is too static. Every change is made by player and that’s boring. Knowing how RNG generates your map, you can easily avoid most of deathtraps, falling to them only because of negligence. You never expect previously discovered area to change. That’s the problem.

Roadblock map tile? Ok, there will be military-grade vehicles, some turrets.  
Some lab map tile colored dark blue? There is stairs down.  
Lab map tile with 4 rooms? They may have turret room (with a turret and a console with maps), store room (wtih chemicals) and so on.  
You know what you might get at certain map tiles. You don’t except them to have some random traps you can’t notice instantly, and especially you don’t expect them to be not what you think.[/quote]

This would be a major design shift and significantly increase difficulty _if_ implemented universally. I’d say modpack-for-universal, or limited to areas around one/more tears in reality.

(The SCZ Hell Dimension was a nifty shock the first few times I saw it, but afterward it got pretty meh. “This isn’t scary or exciting, just tedious.”)

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**Author:** ![Catfoodbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee59a6/32.png) [@Catfoodbob](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Catfoodbob)\
**Post date:** [December 20, 2014, 11:44pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/hidden-dangers/8366/7 "2014-12-20T23:44:04Z")

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Box artifacts that affects the entire world in a certain way… XD a box that makes a rule that nothing can die

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**Author:** ![Pthalocy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/22d042/32.png) [@Pthalocy](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Pthalocy)\
**Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 1:08am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/hidden-dangers/8366/8 "2014-12-21T01:08:12Z")

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I’m not happy with these hidden dangers being tied to city centers “just because” they need to be more difficult. In-game reasons such as nether portals, artifacts nearby, larger weather effects from nether influence on our world: those I really like. This idea is solid so long as it has a rough reason for being where it is in-game.

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**Author:** ![Catfoodbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee59a6/32.png) [@Catfoodbob](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Catfoodbob)\
**Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 1:31am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/hidden-dangers/8366/9 "2014-12-21T01:31:02Z")

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Perhaps a rift tile that continuously spews out nether creatures and can be closed by going down and taking the artifact.

XD a rift spewing out hundreds of migos

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**Author:** ![KA101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/278dde/32.png) [@KA101](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/KA101)\
**Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 3:20am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/hidden-dangers/8366/10 "2014-12-21T03:20:14Z")

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> [@Pthalocy](#):
>
> I’m not happy with these hidden dangers being tied to city centers “just because” they need to be more difficult. In-game reasons such as nether portals, artifacts nearby, larger weather effects from nether influence on our world: those I really like. This idea is solid so long as it has a rough reason for being where it is in-game.

Yeah, in the city center because “needs more difficulty” is arbitrary and capricious, so Nope.

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**Author:** ![StopSignal](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/stopsignal/32/1923_2.png) [@StopSignal](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/StopSignal)\
**Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 3:22am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/hidden-dangers/8366/11 "2014-12-21T03:22:20Z")

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> [@KA101](#):
>
> [quote=“Pthalocy, post:8, topic:8366”]I’m not happy with these hidden dangers being tied to city centers “just because” they need to be more difficult. In-game reasons such as nether portals, artifacts nearby, larger weather effects from nether influence on our world: those I really like. This idea is solid so long as it has a rough reason for being where it is in-game.

Yeah, in the city center because “needs more difficulty” is arbitrary and capricious, so Nope.[/quote]

Well, i’d like having like more military things and deploys and stuff that makes it look like there was a war against zombies over there. Tents with undead medics in the middle of the street, things like that. That could count?

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**Author:** ![KA101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/278dde/32.png) [@KA101](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/KA101)\
**Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 3:26am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/hidden-dangers/8366/12 "2014-12-21T03:26:46Z")

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> [@StopSignal](#):
>
> [quote=“KA101, post:10, topic:8366”][quote=“Pthalocy, post:8, topic:8366”]I’m not happy with these hidden dangers being tied to city centers “just because” they need to be more difficult. In-game reasons such as nether portals, artifacts nearby, larger weather effects from nether influence on our world: those I really like. This idea is solid so long as it has a rough reason for being where it is in-game.

Yeah, in the city center because “needs more difficulty” is arbitrary and capricious, so Nope.[/quote]

Well, i’d like having like more military things and deploys and stuff that makes it look like there was a war against zombies over there. Tents with undead medics in the middle of the street, things like that. That could count?[/quote]

Sandbags and such, sure, that makes a certain amount of sense. I was objecting to having places randomly shift around (incidentally, removing the “better loot” incentive for raiding city centers) purely to make the area more difficult.

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**Author:** ![StopSignal](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/stopsignal/32/1923_2.png) [@StopSignal](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/StopSignal)\
**Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 3:35am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/hidden-dangers/8366/13 "2014-12-21T03:35:54Z")

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Well, in that case you are right, yeah! Hmm… Maybe we could make something like that… what about special cities with a nether portal in the middle of them? This cities would be really big, with incredible loot, and have a lot of nether creatures, with zombies surrounding the more outside part of the city.

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**Author:** ![Catfoodbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee59a6/32.png) [@Catfoodbob](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Catfoodbob)\
**Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 3:50am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/hidden-dangers/8366/14 "2014-12-21T03:50:33Z")

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Tower Cities where the city pretty much is just a giant 500 floor tower randomly generated

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**Author:** ![Pthalocy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/22d042/32.png) [@Pthalocy](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Pthalocy)\
**Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 4:27am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/hidden-dangers/8366/15 "2014-12-21T04:27:20Z")

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Do the nether portals have any rhyme or reason in where they spawn (if they do, would we even understand it)? I am not sure how one would dictate an increase in local loot quality in town due to portals spawning inside of it. I mean, unless you wanna make a special map area to handle it. Seems like a very pre-made approach to what would have been a random situation from the story’s viewpoint. I dunno! I see these means of creating hidden hazards as an opportunity to help world-build as well, even if just by implying how hellish it got as the cataclysm got started.

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**Author:** ![StopSignal](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/stopsignal/32/1923_2.png) [@StopSignal](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/StopSignal)\
**Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 4:34am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/hidden-dangers/8366/16 "2014-12-21T04:34:19Z")

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> [@Pthalocy](#):
>
> Do the nether portals have any rhyme or reason in where they spawn (if they do, would we even understand it)? I am not sure how one would dictate an increase in local loot quality in town due to portals spawning inside of it. I mean, unless you wanna make a special map area to handle it. Seems like a very pre-made approach to what would have been a random situation from the story’s viewpoint. I dunno! I see these means of creating hidden hazards as an opportunity to help world-build as well, even if just by implying how hellish it got as the cataclysm got started.

Hmm, i did not think that through, yeah. Ehh… Soldiers going to the area to see what it was or to fight it?

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**Author:** ![Lorknis](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/lorknis/32/144_2.png) [@Lorknis](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Lorknis)\
**Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 5:15am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/hidden-dangers/8366/17 "2014-12-21T05:15:22Z")

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From what I’ve gotten from the lore, the portals spawn randomly but increase in number near labs that researched in portal tech [AKA Almost all of em’]

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**Author:** ![Pthalocy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/22d042/32.png) [@Pthalocy](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Pthalocy)\
**Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 5:19am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/hidden-dangers/8366/18 "2014-12-21T05:19:42Z")

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Yeah if it’s possible to check if the nether portal has been placed in a city, and then spawn xyz military things within valid spaces around nether portals, that’d give it some flexibility in appearance and make city ones specifically more interesting. I still don’t know how the world generation system works particularly.

So labs we know are the original point for the portals. I don’t know shit about how their world connects to ours because I’m no a theoretical physicist, but it makes sense to me holes would appear nearest an existing tear. Of course, I’m assuming neighbouring realities interact with one another in a comparable fashion to how my jeans interact with friction, so. Heh.

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**Author:** ![EditorRUS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9fc29f/32.png) [@EditorRUS](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/EditorRUS)\
**Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 12:15pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/hidden-dangers/8366/19 "2015-06-16T12:15:33Z")

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Bump. For some reason it died out.

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**Author:** ![Pthalocy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/22d042/32.png) [@Pthalocy](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Pthalocy)\
**Post date:** [June 16, 2015, 3:14pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/hidden-dangers/8366/20 "2015-06-16T15:14:51Z")

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Need to narrow down goal for what to include. We started with your proposal and then discussed and expanded several points. Then we got sidetracked with the important goal of making the bigger goals fit the lore. I think what we need to do is pick the most viable one first, and just expand on that.

Say, artifacts and portals having global effects. I really liked that idea. Little lorebending is needed to explain that aspect. I am especially sick of walking over a pile of rubble and finding some god-tier random doodad. Make me work for it. Let’s come up with a list of specific effects we want and find someone to code those.

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