# Have Zombies' speed been increased?

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/have-zombies-speed-been-increased/25431>\
**Category:** The Bunker\
**Created:** [November 30, 2020, 11:00am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/have-zombies-speed-been-increased/25431 "2020-11-30T11:00:51Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 17\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![zantanzuken](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zantanzuken/32/10325_2.png) [@zantanzuken](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/zantanzuken)\
**Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 5:26am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/have-zombies-speed-been-increased/25431/21 "2020-12-02T05:26:12Z")

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that may be because the zombies have a tendancy to ‘wander’ as they’re chasing you, going to the left or right of their intended straight path towards you.

i remember reading something in the forums once about how zombies have a semi-hidden ‘lurch’ code that allows them to take an extra movenet, but in a random direction, that may be this?

yeah. [here.](https://cddawiki.chezzo.com/cdda_wiki/index.php?title=Creature_AI) though it does say that zombies stop showing that type of behavior when they’re close to 4 tiles away from whatever they’re chasing (and in this case, the zombie is close enough, and chasing me, though not actively aware of me.)

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**Author:** ![Sperg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Sperg](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Sperg)\
**Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 5:35am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/have-zombies-speed-been-increased/25431/22 "2020-12-02T05:35:28Z")

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Possibly.

Might explain your weird 1-moves here, but not a similar speed mofo catching up with semi-random movements while taking a route that’s roughly 50% slower.

Maybe a bug to do with the interaction.

Edit: Otherwise it should still be like that CD disabled but for me they kept same distances.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![zantanzuken](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zantanzuken/32/10325_2.png) [@zantanzuken](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/zantanzuken)\
**Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 5:37am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/have-zombies-speed-been-increased/25431/23 "2020-12-02T05:37:06Z")

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extra movement is extra movement… and while there’s a possibility it might move to the left or right, it could also be a random movement in your direction, making it seem faster than it actually is.

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**Author:** ![Valase](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/valase/32/6972_2.png) [@Valase](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Valase)\
**Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 5:53am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/have-zombies-speed-been-increased/25431/24 "2020-12-02T05:53:22Z")

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Welp, I’m no longer able to recreate that “jumping” thingy reliably in the older version of Cataclysm…  
But I was able to capture the fast movement one:  
 ![Too_fast_Zombies](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/cataclysmdda/original/2X/a/a3a5bc96f216735697d4e172dbe5b88fcc40336b.gif)

Version: 0.E-7804-g98d7868 [64-bit] (b11184)  
Movement speed setting: 1% (since world generation)

As you see, some of them move 1 tile each second. But there’s also one Zombie Runner that doesn’t move at all (and some offscreen that move just one tile in the same time).  
Most of the ones that you see moving now stood still afterwards, some might still moved an additional tile.

> [@zantanzuken](#):
>
> thats after 2 turns of me moving downward, it stood still then hopped.

Yes, that’s exactly what I meant. That’s the jumping one… And I see the crosswalks, so it’s clearly in the new version too.

However, I have a new theory… The pavement can be bashed… So maybe it’s less a thing of “solid obstacle” and more of a “bashable object” next to the Zombie causing the jumping (not the extra movement, as one of the Runners in my clip moves on plain grass - unless it’s the same bug and caused by something different than what I think).

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**Author:** ![Sperg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Sperg](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Sperg)\
**Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 5:59am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/have-zombies-speed-been-increased/25431/25 "2020-12-02T05:59:40Z")

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I was apparently on build 11203 from 2 days ago - 0.E-7938-g8736e6b (tiles)

Updating again to see if it still does it.

Still happens.

Thought it’d been fixed - Me and diagonal Bio were keeping similar distance away with me slightly gaining distance, then i remembered i’d had CD disabled on the last test i did so i re-enabled it then he shortly caught up again.

No objects around - on an empty field of grass.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![zantanzuken](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zantanzuken/32/10325_2.png) [@zantanzuken](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/zantanzuken)\
**Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 6:05am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/have-zombies-speed-been-increased/25431/26 "2020-12-02T06:05:33Z")

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strange that the only ones that can move in 1% speed are the zombies that have more than 100 movement.

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**Author:** ![Valase](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/valase/32/6972_2.png) [@Valase](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Valase)\
**Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 6:08am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/have-zombies-speed-been-increased/25431/27 "2020-12-02T06:08:20Z")

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It’s possible that it gets rounded down, since - if I remember right - movement points are integers…

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Sperg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Sperg](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Sperg)\
**Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 6:08am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/have-zombies-speed-been-increased/25431/28 "2020-12-02T06:08:38Z")

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Well that’s odd, apparently that’s the latest build even though it shows higher numbered more recent builds in changelog.

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**Author:** ![Valase](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/valase/32/6972_2.png) [@Valase](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Valase)\
**Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 6:10am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/have-zombies-speed-been-increased/25431/29 "2020-12-02T06:10:02Z")

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> [@Sperg](#):
>
> […] it shows higher number more recent builds in changelog.

Yeah, the other builds failed… See:

> [@Build numbers borked again](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/build-numbers-borked-again/25413):
>
> Using launcher, it shows latest available build is 11999 but changelog looks like this: Build #11202 - November 29, 2020 at 7:35:41 AM +0700 build still in progress! Rebalance 40mm grenades Fix excess commas npctrade: stop selling things that are marked TRADER\_AVOID Silence compiler warning (#45679) Add new helper function get\_book\_mastery (#45475) fix freshwater research station spawning (#45552) no more blanket Routine i18n updates on 29 Nov 2020 Fix wrong format Update urban\_5\_hous…

… or here:

> **[Releases · CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/releases)**
>
> Cataclysm - Dark Days Ahead. A turn-based survival game set in a post-apocalyptic world. - CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Sperg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Sperg](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Sperg)\
**Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 6:12am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/have-zombies-speed-been-increased/25431/30 "2020-12-02T06:12:49Z")

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Ah so still borked.

Am on 11203 but it shows 11209 with a list of changes and 11212 highest.

Anyway at least this is on peoples radar now so i’ll leave it with you guys, thought i was going crazy because something seemingly so big and odd didn’t even pick up traction for 2 days when this thread was made about it, let alone it not having been noticed (mentioned) by anyone else before then.

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**Author:** ![0x91](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/0x91/32/12185_2.png) [@0x91](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/0x91)\
**Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 9:21am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/have-zombies-speed-been-increased/25431/31 "2020-12-02T09:21:02Z")

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Something doesn’t seem right.

Probably the easiest way would be to just write that moves seem to work as the ratio of two functions - the speed function and the speed cost function  
_x_/_y_ where _x_ is the player’s speed and _y_ is the cost of movement. Then, if the speed of the character was 500 and the cost of movement was 100, there would be no thought about how it can spend 5 seconds for 1 second (if 1 second of the turn is equal to 100 points), we would just say 500/100 and see that the answer is \>1 and we would move. We would have 400 points left until the end of the turn, although we would have spent 100, but the game second, in theory, would not have passed yet. And if it would pass, then it turns out that if our speed is 500 and the cost of moving is 1000, then we will spend 10 game turns on moving?

What is doubtful is that how does the combat system work then? When we move away from the zombies, they can also move to the cell where we are standing. Apparently, we are standing on the same cell, for possible capture by the zombies, and if the probability of capture did not work, the cell is marked empty and the zombies are teleported to the cell where we are standing, and we, at the beginning of the next turn, are teleported to the cell that we “reached” - this is if the way moving works in your description works. otherwise, apparently, the combat ones work earlier than the displacement ones.

Then I don’t understand what difference it makes that we equate 1 turn to 100 points if it’s not used anywhere. I.e. it doesn’t exist at all.

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**Author:** ![Valase](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/valase/32/6972_2.png) [@Valase](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Valase)\
**Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 11:09am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/have-zombies-speed-been-increased/25431/32 "2020-12-02T11:09:05Z")

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> [@0x91](#):
>
> Probably the easiest way would be to just write that moves seem to work as the ratio of two functions - the speed function and the speed cost function  
> _x_ / _y_ where _x_ is the player’s speed and _y_ is the cost of movement.

Yes, we could write it that way, but that would be wrong.

> [@0x91](#):
>
> And if it would pass, then it turns out that if our speed is 500 and the cost of moving is 1000, then we will spend 10 game turns on moving?

I have no idea how you get to 10 game turns from 500 divided by 1000 (based on your function).

> [@0x91](#):
>
> Then I don’t understand what difference it makes that we equate 1 turn to 100 points if it’s not used anywhere. I.e. it doesn’t exist at all.

Well, I’ve missphrased that bit as I tried to keep it simple and later deceided to be a bit more specific…  
As far as I can tell, correct is:  
A turn ends when all move points are spent.

And what I tried to say is:  
A “turn”, equal to an ingame second, passes after the player used up his, which usually is 100 “move points” (as in 100 speed and 100 base move cost = 100) for a default player.

My fault. I’ll remove that one, that’s just complicating it more for no real gain.

> [@0x91](#):
>
> When we move away from the zombies, they can also move to the cell where we are standing. […] - this is if the way moving works in your description works.

Uhm, no. This is the opposite of what I’ve described, actually.  
I don’t know what you mean with “teleported” and “capture”, as neither is teleporting.  
Based on my description: If they can move before you can move, and are standing next to you, and want to move to your tile, than they attack. If you have enough points to move, you move first, then the Zombie to the tile you stood previously.

I can go in and check the code how it’s really done if you want, but I’m not sure if that time would be well spent, as I expect my math/explanation would hold up with a high probability, with only minor changes to the sequence and things that I’ve left out because of simplicity. And I doubt it would explain what’s going on with the faster speed of the Zombies.

However, you could check it yourself if you want to…  
The relevant code parts that I know about are:  
Main function and best bet at finding the right sequence is [do\_turn()](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/blob/51e432ff8587d1406fbc8c24230709a46d61bfeb/src/game.cpp#L1412) in game.cpp, as well as [monmove()](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/blob/51e432ff8587d1406fbc8c24230709a46d61bfeb/src/game.cpp#L4517).  
The monster’s actions can be found in the function [move()](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/blob/51e432ff8587d1406fbc8c24230709a46d61bfeb/src/monmove.cpp#L653) and [attack\_at(…)](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/blob/51e432ff8587d1406fbc8c24230709a46d61bfeb/src/monmove.cpp#L1472) in monmove.cpp.  
I’m not sure where the player moves are located, I’d think they are in the character.cpp or player.cpp file, but I can’t find them right now…

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Sperg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Sperg](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Sperg)\
**Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 11:18am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/have-zombies-speed-been-increased/25431/33 "2020-12-02T11:18:01Z")

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Bit of a late response to this, but i was preoccupied with this whole thing at the time and missed it:

> [@Valase](#):
>
> To my understanding:  
> A “turn”, equal to an ingame second.  
> Moving from one tile to another does cost move points (well, all actions, really).  
> Different terrain have different costs, as seen by the “Move cost” value if you look at a terrain (default keys: `x` or `;` ).  
> All beings in the game has something that (for this explanation) we will call a “move point account”… Each turn that passes will set the being’s account to the current speed value and subtract the cost of the action taken.  
> If the player’s character move point account reaches 0 or he “ends” the turn (by pressing `5` or `.` ), the next turn will start and - in case that the player’s character made an action that takes up more move points than it had on its account before the turn ended - substracts the remainder of the move cost from the account.  
> The move/action only finishes or gets executed if its remaining cost is zero.

This is how i understand it also.

> [@Valase](#):
>
> Based on all above (and the mathematical example), the Bio-Operator with a speed of 95 should slowly catch up to this character, but not really at the speed of a Zombie Dog…

> [@Valase](#):
>
> If your character’s coughing or vomiting (and possible some other things too), it takes up move points (or even waste a turn). But I guess this isn’t the case here…

If a Bio-Operator has a speed of 95 and my character a (final) move cost of 106 (not using character speed also due to final move cost taking into account the above things like coughing, or more commonly movement penalties e.g from leg encumbrance or temperature fluctuations) then that would mean a move difference of 1 out of 100? So the Bio should only _very slowly_ catch up in theory, an extra space per 100 turns?

But then if you take into account zombies random move patterns or “lurching” as well as the Circular Distance 50%? Or so movement penalty for diagonal movement, while i was running in a straight line - he should get left behind in short order. But it’s the complete opposite.

Even without this seemingly CD-enabled diagonal move-speed increase bug, with CD disabled so no diagonal movement penalty - all other things being equal a 1 speed difference in a 100 cost to move system but with lurching should mean you actually slowly leave him behind still, which i reported i was in the other tests.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Valase](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/valase/32/6972_2.png) [@Valase](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Valase)\
**Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 11:57am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/have-zombies-speed-been-increased/25431/34 "2020-12-02T11:57:37Z")

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> [@Sperg](#):
>
> So the Bio should only _very slowly_ catch up in theory, an extra space per 100 turns?

If I’m right, yes.

> [@Sperg](#):
>
> But then if you take into account zombies random move patterns […] he should get left behind in short order.

Exactly. It might [stumble/stagger](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/blob/c9591105ceb2777909b8a0edc55c35d7b7db5219/src/monmove.cpp#L1021-L1031) and go in a different direction (or stay in place) and waste its move points.

> [@Sperg](#):
>
> But it’s the complete opposite.

Yes, I agree; this is a bug and [the bug report](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/45768) is valid as far as I can tell 😀 .

> [@Sperg](#):
>
> […] slowly leave him behind still, which i reported i was in the other tests.

Also correct 🙂 .

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Sperg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Sperg](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Sperg)\
**Post date:** [December 2, 2020, 12:29pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/have-zombies-speed-been-increased/25431/35 "2020-12-02T12:29:04Z")

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Now whether to wait for a fix before i keep playing then savescum and go again, or continue on now with Circular Distances disabled - either way dominating the Bio and most other melee things with similar speed or slower on Day 4 with my Knife Spear.

Although i guess Weariness and grittier Stamina makes it a little more interesting even with Reach Attacks.

That’s also if enough piercing damage gets through that things high armor - not sure as piercing armor doesn’t appear to be added to monsters yet on Chezzo.

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**Author:** ![games\_and\_glory](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/games_and_glory/32/9543_2.png) [@games\_and\_glory](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/games_and_glory)\
**Post date:** [April 12, 2021, 2:35am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/have-zombies-speed-been-increased/25431/36 "2021-04-12T02:35:06Z")

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I can 100% confirm that bio operators have a CHANCE of spawning in the first 4 days as I once found two at a heli crash

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![robotic\_gamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6de8d8/32.png) [@robotic\_gamer](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/robotic_gamer)\
**Post date:** [April 12, 2021, 4:56am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/have-zombies-speed-been-increased/25431/37 "2021-04-12T04:56:44Z")

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bio operators spawning on day 1 isn’t really weird since they aren’t a zombie evolution, they are zombified bionically enhanced special forces. the main thing stopping them from being a problem early game is that they only spawn in specific locations that can be avoided early game.  
if your willing to spend the time most mid game melee enemies can be cheesed with pits

- dig a pit, lure enemies to fall on it hit a few times, retreat then repeat
- personally I think the ideal formation is 4 pits in a 2 by 2 arrangement since this allows circular kitting
- alternatively dig a pit every short distance as you approach a danger zone
- kitting is a bit harder but it allows approaching a target location with pits to fall back on
- damage can be enhanced at the cost of loot by starting a fire in the pit. I mainly reserve this for hulks and juggernauts
- its worth noting “smart” enemies like migos will avoid pits and fire.  
-they can still be cheesed since their pathing consists of trying to travel in a largely straight line toward you. so you can just dig a wall of pits then lure them to your work then attack with a ranged/reach weapon with impunity  
-though in general weariness prevents extended engagements so I advise hit and run tactics and avoid going on the offense in less then ideal condition
- also try to aim to fight zombies 1 at a time when possible

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