Grenadier Zombies

[Arek_PL]

What furry shit are you talking about? The animal hybrid mutations?

not mutations, we have clothes like cat ears, tails and animal suits like wolf

and grenadiers are new and will be nerfed soon when tankbots were added they was common and now they are rare and waste most of ammo on random zombies

[Thwap]

I just enable the Mundane Zombies mod and add and subtract stuff from it as I see fit. These are getting blackballed hard as hell. I’ll never see one again. There seriously needs to be a real endgame (beyond the portals or wherever) rather than whatever coder is bored inventing some supermonster and throwing it in the middle of the street to blow up newbies looking for canned food.

[Kryxx]

[quote=“Laughing Fool, post:66, topic:9483”]What furry shit are you talking about? The animal hybrid mutations?

not mutations, we have clothes like cat ears, tails and animal suits like wolf[/quote]

Your upset about mascot suits? Dinosaur and wolf and other suits are from the various stores promoting food products. Usually pizza (closed), or other places. If there was a ‘high’ school, there should be 1-2 in a locker room there or a chance to be also.

Those minor additions add flavor into the world. It’s just costuming stuff. My niece has a pair of bunny ears. She’s 5. There is also a Tri-corne? Kind of sad there is no fake beard though. I personally own a top hat, I haven’t seen a cane in game yet, with an option to craft a ‘sword’ cane. :\ These thing exists in our world, nothing wrong with them existing in cata.

I love those random flavor moments, they make it more immersion and laughable, I tend to keep those items.

Mascot costumes saved me more than once, early on from freezing as they give massive warmth, and 100% coverage. I wore one recently rather than make specific gear clear the bottom level of an Ice Lab.

[Azrad]

I just have once concern about this. Will they be like the zombie scientists and their manhacks… like, for example, the zombie scientists in labs and their tendency to just keep on throwing out manhacks on a faraway room. The moment you find that room it’s filled up with an army of manhacks.

[i2amroy]

I just have once concern about this. Will they be like the zombie scientists and their manhacks… like, for example, the zombie scientists in labs and their tendency to just keep on throwing out manhacks on a faraway room. The moment you find that room it’s filled up with an army of manhacks.

They only release hacks if:

1. The player is within 30 tiles
   and
2. They can see the player

Eventually I’d like to change that to “target” instead of “player” so they could use them in targeting non=player enemies, but we don’t have the coding ability to grab the target of a tracking monster yet so it’s limited to just the player.

Also the grenadier nerfs went in last night/this morning depending on your time zone.

[Vorchar]

[quote=“Azrad, post:71, topic:9483”]I just have once concern about this. Will they be like the zombie scientists and their manhacks… like, for example, the zombie scientists in labs and their tendency to just keep on throwing out manhacks on a faraway room. The moment you find that room it’s filled up with an army of manhacks.

They only release hacks if:

1. The player is within 30 tiles
   and
2. They can see the player

Eventually I’d like to change that to “target” instead of “player” so they could use them in targeting non=player enemies, but we don’t have the coding ability to grab the target of a tracking monster yet so it’s limited to just the player.

Also the grenadier nerfs went in last night/this morning depending on your time zone.[/quote]
Due to popular demand Grenadier zombies are now known as Granadier Zombies. Instead of grenadehacks these things throw out granadehacks. Out come for normal Granadiers is only BUFFS and for Elite variations they have small cahnce of giving NERFS or BEES! instead of BUFFS.

[troll_from_behind]

So, in essence, you plan to make CATAs difficulty to scale according to players skills?
Suppouse it is good to keep player on his toes no matter what he can do/is carrying, BUT for the ones wanting a more traditional zombie-experience (mundane zombies only) it kinda makes the game a bit too easy after a threshold where you have the tools to turn mundane zombies from a real danger into boring punching bags.
So could you consider making the mundane zombies also a potential threat by adding horde tactics (pull down & devour) or giving the bite a small chance of bypassing the armour?
I well know, that mundane zombies is a mod, and as such not a part of the “official universe”, but making mundanes dangerous for higher tier player, if only within the “Mundane zombies” mod.

[Vorchar]

[quote=“troll from behind, post:74, topic:9483”]So, in essence, you plan to make CATAs difficulty to scale according to players skills?
Suppouse it is good to keep player on his toes no matter what he can do/is carrying, BUT for the ones wanting a more traditional zombie-experience (mundane zombies only) it kinda makes the game a bit too easy after a threshold where you have the tools to turn mundane zombies from a real danger into boring punching bags.
So could you consider making the mundane zombies also a potential threat by adding horde tactics (pull down & devour) or giving the bite a small chance of bypassing the armour?
I well know, that mundane zombies is a mod, and as such not a part of the “official universe”, but making mundanes dangerous for higher tier player, if only within the “Mundane zombies” mod.[/quote]
You might want to grap newer experimental and see zombie hollows.

Edit. not 100% sure if hollows appear on mundane zombies. They do on no special zombies.

[Coolthulhu]

So could you consider making the mundane zombies also a potential threat by adding horde tactics (pull down & devour) or giving the bite a small chance of bypassing the armour?

Zombie pile-up is planned to happen, but no one did any serious work on it yet.
Also zombies pushing each other so that they surround the player more easily.

One of the biggest problems with mundane zombies is the melee combat mechanics.
Probably the most important of those is the stun on hit. It triggers very reliably later on, to the point where you can kill anything you get the first strike on.
Later on also crits (way too reliable), heavy scaling on good weapons (cutting and knives) and zombie armor.

Melee needs quite a bit of work. It starts quite dangerous, but then difficulty plummets as you gain armor, weapons and weapon skills.

[Arek_PL]

[quote=“troll from behind, post:74, topic:9483”]So could you consider making the mundane zombies also a potential threat by adding horde tactics (pull down & devour) or giving the bite a small chance of bypassing the armour?

Zombie pile-up is planned to happen, but no one did any serious work on it yet.
Also zombies pushing each other so that they surround the player more easily.

One of the biggest problems with mundane zombies is the melee combat mechanics.
Probably the most important of those is the stun on hit. It triggers very reliably later on, to the point where you can kill anything you get the first strike on.
Later on also crits (way too reliable), heavy scaling on good weapons (cutting and knives) and zombie armor.

Melee needs quite a bit of work. It starts quite dangerous, but then difficulty plummets as you gain armor, weapons and weapon skills.[/quote]

actualy armor increase difficulty because torso enc throw you off balance and surounded player sometimes get hit for 1 or 2 damage or something like 9 damage when send flying by brute or hulk

[deoxy]

[quote=“Azrad, post:71, topic:9483”]I just have once concern about this. Will they be like the zombie scientists and their manhacks… like, for example, the zombie scientists in labs and their tendency to just keep on throwing out manhacks on a faraway room. The moment you find that room it’s filled up with an army of manhacks.

They only release hacks if:

1. The player is within 30 tiles
   and
2. They can see the player[/quote]

This is absolutely not true. As the original poster pointed out, it is common in labs to find a room that a scientist has FILLED with manhacks, and it’s full the very first time you open it.

I would actually guess that it’s the second one that is false, and the first one may well be true (as you can spend a lot of time close enough to something in a lab). The best example of this is scientists in an observation room - the noise of the thing banging keeps them agitated, and they keep releasing manhacks (at least, that’s the mechanic I assume is at work). I’ve seen it in other rooms, though… a utility room once, for example, packed to the gills with manhacks the first time I opened it, to the point I almost wasn’t able to get it closed again.

[quote=“troll from behind, post:74, topic:9483”]So, in essence, you plan to make CATAs difficulty to scale according to players skills?
Suppouse it is good to keep player on his toes no matter what he can do/is carrying, BUT for the ones wanting a more traditional zombie-experience (mundane zombies only) it kinda makes the game a bit too easy after a threshold where you have the tools to turn mundane zombies from a real danger into boring punching bags.
So could you consider making the mundane zombies also a potential threat by adding horde tactics (pull down & devour) or giving the bite a small chance of bypassing the armour?
I well know, that mundane zombies is a mod, and as such not a part of the “official universe”, but making mundanes dangerous for higher tier player, if only within the “Mundane zombies” mod.[/quote]

Zombies ARE “boring punching bags”. After the initial event that kills/zombifies people and the first few days of figuring out the rules of the new world, zombies should be braindead boring to wipe out… unless their numbers are just silly big, which brings me to the point about “horde tactics” you mentioned.

Something like that is desperately needed, and not just for the “mundanes”. I don’t care what kind of awesome abilities you have, no one person can stand against a horde of hundreds bearing down on them (well, ok, if you machine gun them at RANGE, sure).

Some kind of push/trample mechanic would be welcome, and it should ignore a significant amount of armor - power armor should be sufficient to resist the effect and/or the damage, but not much else (though medium/heavy armor should still HELP, I think - perhaps ignore a percentage of armor?).

[Arek_PL]

specials with some anti armor attacks are good, spitters what damage our armor and disolve our socks shockers what can stun us ignoring armor or new grenadier zombies and old hulks and brutes what send you flying these zombies all those zombies can deal high damage even to survivor with realy heavy armor

and i think that horde look still like its wip when i was using debug menu i saw that most hordes are 1-8 zombies in horde so even if you meet one you will barely notice that and best place where you can see power of horde is city what is full of hordes and filled with non horde zombies maybe make some bigger hordes spawn from time to time on edges of map (area big like what will be mapped if you use map terminal or map items)

[deoxy]

specials with some anti armor attacks are good, spitters what damage our armor and disolve our socks shockers what can stun us ignoring armor or new grenadier zombies and old hulks and brutes what send you flying these zombies all those zombies can deal high damage even to survivor with realy heavy armor

I haven’t faced the new gredadier yet, but hulks and brutes are a JOKE to a serious melee combatant, and shockers can be negated with a CBM, leaving only spitters as a serious threat… but that threat is really REALLY annoying and likely to be nerfed. We need something that is a threat, a serious threat, that isn’t just plain annoying. Some kind of horde mechanic could do this, similar to how zombies can group attack on walls to bash them down.

Newbies can get away from a horde, but it could still be a real threat to seasoned survivors, especially if masters (or “masterminds” or something) are able to direct horse movement (after a few seasons, maybe?).

[Thwap]

Stuns from melee hits need nerfed. It’s a frickin’ zombie, not some kind of glass-jawed boxer who does the chicken dance whenever he gets rocked. Also, knockback. Knocking a couple hundred pounds of meat several feet backwards isn’t really something you can do routinely unless you’re Hercules.

But you know, I find it kind of ironic that everyone is going “Ooh how can we make walking down the street and looting a sporting goods store or whatever more difficult?” and meanwhile looting a science lab is as dull as grocery shopping as long as you have a gun and some armor that can handle the occasional burst of 9mm. Ain’t no hordes or tankbots down there.

Looting a military bunker? As long as you have one card to swipe you can just roll in there and fill up on military-grade firepower no problem. Jackhammer the rest of the doors down, pause for a sandwich break now and then. But hey we need some kind of super smart zombie with flamethrower hands that breathes nerve gas to patrol the streets because looting pawn shops and pharmacies is too easy.

[i2amroy]

[quote=“i2amroy, post:72, topic:9483”][quote=“Azrad, post:71, topic:9483”]I just have once concern about this. Will they be like the zombie scientists and their manhacks… like, for example, the zombie scientists in labs and their tendency to just keep on throwing out manhacks on a faraway room. The moment you find that room it’s filled up with an army of manhacks.

They only release hacks if:

1. The player is within 30 tiles
   and
2. They can see the player[/quote]
   This is absolutely not true. As the original poster pointed out, it is common in labs to find a room that a scientist has FILLED with manhacks, and it’s full the very first time you open it.[/quote]
   Ummm… My response post was talking about grenadiers releasing hacks, not scientists. Scientists can release hacks whenever they dang well please AFAIK.

[Murphy]

Ummm… My response post was talking about grenadiers releasing hacks, not scientists. Scientists can release hacks whenever they dang well please AFAIK.

I do believe scientists no longer have an unlimited supply of manhacks, though.

[deoxy]

[quote=“i2amroy, post:82, topic:9483”]Ummm… My response post was talking about grenadiers releasing hacks, not scientists. Scientists can release hacks whenever they dang well please AFAIK.

I do believe scientists no longer have an unlimited supply of manhacks, though.[/quote]

That would be good, from a realism point of view… but sad from the “infinite supply of plutonium cells” point of view. heh.

[Vorchar]

Encountered second Elite Grenadier and two mi-gos. One mi-gos proceed to kill of the elite before I managed to engage other mi-go. Wow those things have no melee skills.

[Coolthulhu]

Encountered second Elite Grenadier and two mi-gos. One mi-gos proceed to kill of the elite before I managed to engage other mi-go. Wow those things have no melee skills.

Actually, they just don’t fight back. They only target the player.

[Wally-kun]

Concussive force actually obeying physics and not stopping dead at your armor would be a very firm reminder of one’s mortality, even if it’s just a little at a time or one single hit point guaranteed beyond a given threshold.

I put up a seperate thread about it on the Drawing Board. I have a feeling that keeping a player from truly becoming invincible will make certain threats still feel like a threat at any point in the game, because seriously, you can’t just step on a landmine and have it blow up and have absolutely no effect on the person. It just doesn’t work like that. Same with being put through a wall by a Hulk. The force alone from the punch would do some hurt, regardless of how dense your armor is, not to mention the impact with the wall enough to put you through it.

Certain things should always just be dangerous. No matter how mutated or bionic-infested one becomes, the player can only ever be human. There is no way around that in real life and there shouldn’t be in game, because it gets extremely boring very quickly. People still need to be able to get hurt or there’s no point in playing.