Gas Mask and NBC suit rework

[Noctifer]

One way to work around it is instead of reloading the filters, craft the mask with the filter with the mask and the filter as ingredients. That way, each mask will work for the time specified depending on the filter. It would require making a gas item for each mask-filter combo however…

[Closet_Pankin]

This sounds like a fantastic project! I collect gas masks in real life, so I am very much looking forward to this.

My only issue is that, once you activate a filter, you can’t put a cap or something on it to save it for the next time you need it. Any way of making that a thing?

[kevin.granade]

I was hoping someone familliar with gas masks could look into this kind of thing.

Do filters go bad over time, do they get clogged with use, or some combination of the two?

If needed, we can add mechanics to make filter use better match reality.

[Closet_Pankin]

[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:6, topic:11042”]I was hoping someone familliar with gas masks could look into this kind of thing.

Do filters go bad over time, do they get clogged with use, or some combination of the two?

If needed, we can add mechanics to make filter use better match reality.[/quote]

Filters work by using charcoal to filter the air intake. Over time, the charcoal will lose effectiveness and not filter the air properly. Most filters nowadays come with caps that you can plug both sides of the filter with to prevent air from going through the filter.

Want me to take pictures of my collection?

[kevin.granade]

Pics not necessary, I believe you.
So would you expect filters that are exposed to air to go bad as quickly as ones being used (breathed through), or much more slowly? I’m guessing the second.
Also, do you expect filters exposed to smoke to expire much faster than ones just exposed to air? Again guessing yes, but don’t want to make assumptions.

This seems like something where you’d want filters to supply “charges” of filtration, that the mask consumes as it’s active. The tricky bit is what you’d want to happen is to only allow swapping items, not merging them like with ammo. We can probably add that logic though, it’s similar to how rechargeable batteries should work.

[Closet_Pankin]

[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:8, topic:11042”]Pics not necessary, I believe you.
So would you expect filters that are exposed to air to go bad as quickly as ones being used (breathed through), or much more slowly? I’m guessing the second.
Also, do you expect filters exposed to smoke to expire much faster than ones just exposed to air? Again guessing yes, but don’t want to make assumptions.

This seems like something where you’d want filters to supply “charges” of filtration, that the mask consumes as it’s active. The tricky bit is what you’d want to happen is to only allow swapping items, not merging them like with ammo. We can probably add that logic though, it’s similar to how rechargeable batteries should work.[/quote]

Oh no, sorry, I meant pics to show how the caps and whatnot work! It wasn’t a sort of ‘proving it’ thing. It’s so hard to convey tone in text.

That being said, charges would absolutely be the best way to go about this, in my opinion.

[vache]

Wouldn’t that be a lot like magazines for guns as well?

[kevin.granade]

The difference is that for guns you’re expected to be able to add charges as you go, but for filters that wouldn’t make sense.

[Closet_Pankin]

The difference is that for guns you’re expected to be able to add charges as you go, but for filters that wouldn’t make sense.

What if they worked sort of like glowsticks or flares, but with the ability to take them off and (a)ctivate them to ‘snap’ the plug on the filter?

[vache]

I would imagine that they only drain charges while connected to the gas mask (and possibly then only when worn), and it’s assumed that when they’re not connected, they are sealed in some way. This might not work for pure makeshift filters, but a refurbished filter and professionally made filters could get away with it. When they’re used up, you can unload the gas mask for a spent gas mask filter that can be used to craft refurbished filters.

[Closet_Pankin]

I would imagine that they only drain charges while connected to the gas mask (and possibly then only when worn), and it’s assumed that when they’re not connected, they are sealed in some way. This might not work for pure makeshift filters, but a refurbished filter and professionally made filters could get away with it. When they’re used up, you can unload the gas mask for a spent gas mask filter that can be used to craft refurbished filters.

This could work, yeah.

[Kurchie]

I would imagine that they only drain charges while connected to the gas mask (and possibly then only when worn), and it’s assumed that when they’re not connected, they are sealed in some way. This might not work for pure makeshift filters, but a refurbished filter and professionally made filters could get away with it. When they’re used up, you can unload the gas mask for a spent gas mask filter that can be used to craft refurbished filters.

This is what I’ve been aiming for, to prevent having to disassemble the mask to remove the filter every time. The issue I am having is that unloading it will just give you back a normal filter. Also, I own some gas masks, and all of them take standard 40mm threading, which means that the ability to use any filter on any mask (except for the coffee can filters) should also be available, but that would probably require knowledge about coding that I do not have. I did fix the issue of the items not spawning in game though.

[Hektoer]

I use some filtration professionally and have studied real world means to make your own activated charcoal (a good extension feature to work on with masks) so please allow me to put my own summary on these:
Most masks have two stage filtration; a physical media like dense cotton pads (not unlike the material cheap masks at a hardware store would have) and a chemical media which is almost always activated charcoal.
The cotton stuff (first stage) filters out dust and perhaps some smoke stuff that would otherwise plug the charcoal quickly.
The activated charcoal (essentially wood burned in a fire while enclosed in a space to limit oxygen exchange) is just a black dust. At a microscopic level it has a lot of pores. This allows stuff to stick to it heavily; even very small things (like tear gas or irradiated dust, etc). As an aside, black powder uses charcoal to mix the other two ingredients very finely and still allow air to get to them so they combust rapidly.
The filter cartridges, once opened, start interacting with the air. Even if you don’t breathe through the filter it is still consuming itself by adsorption with the air (moisture I suppose). I would say you should put a lifespan on the filter. Every tick it is not being worn consumes X amount even in your pack or on the ground like a chemstick. Every tick you are breathing with it it consumes, say, 60X. Every tick you breathe with it while exposed to smoke or whatever it consumes 180X. You can stick a mask with filter in an airtight container and it is said to drastically slow or halt the consumption of the filter. For game purposes I’d say it halts it.
As an aside, some filters allow you to replace the first stage to keep the filter easier to breathe. I don’t know if it’s possible to track two stages but the cotton pads could plug quicker and perhaps increase encumbrance of the mask.
Anyways, a used up filter could be stripped apart and new cotton pad and activated charcoal placed inside and it’d be just as good as a factory one barring potential leaks or maybe encumbrance due to the media not being as well controlled. Maybe a roll on first use to check if it is sealed or not and an increased encumbrance or reduced enviro rating for remanufactured cartridges.
Hope that helps! Accessory items would be a sealed mask case (tupperware!) and a wood gasifier or activated charcoal maker, etc.

[Kurchie]

I’m thinking about removing the “NEVER_MISFIRES” flag for the refurbished filters, if that might give it chance to not be effective and turn directly to an expired filter.

If I could give the filters various amounts of charges while being read as a single object, instead of several objects grouped together (ammo, batteries, etc.) that would solve the problems of the mask not deactivating, and the problem of having to assign filters to specific masks, although an entirely different issue would arise of needing to figure out how to apply a higher encumbrance to a mask without a hose, unless the encumbrance applied to the character is the mask *and the volume of the filter.

I’m working on the mod right now, if I can get the mask to deactivate automatically once the filters are used up, I can post what I have done so far.

[pisskop]

this sounds awesome. my experience with realworld personal filters is limited to military drills, but ive always wanted an ingame reason not to wear my filter mask all the time.

[Noctifer]

[quote=“Kurchie, post:17, topic:11042”]I’m thinking about removing the “NEVER_MISFIRES” flag for the refurbished filters, if that might give it chance to not be effective and turn directly to an expired filter.

If I could give the filters various amounts of charges while being read as a single object, instead of several objects grouped together (ammo, batteries, etc.) that would solve the problems of the mask not deactivating, and the problem of having to assign filters to specific masks, although an entirely different issue would arise of needing to figure out how to apply a higher encumbrance to a mask without a hose, unless the encumbrance applied to the character is the mask *and the volume of the filter.

I’m working on the mod right now, if I can get the mask to deactivate automatically once the filters are used up, I can post what I have done so far.[/quote]

You could do it as a flashlight, flashlights are actully two items, one for on and one for off. When the mask is off and has a filter, then it can be on. when its on and it runs out of charge (filter dies) it becomes an “off” mask like a flashlight.

[Zireael]

You could do it as a flashlight, flashlights are actully two items, one for on and one for off. When the mask is off and has a filter, then it can be on. when its on and it runs out of charge (filter dies) it becomes an “off” mask like a flashlight.

That’s a good idea.

[Kurchie]

I have fixed the masks not deactivating. Totally new problem of the filters, once unsealed, don’t reduce their charge over time. I’m thinking its because they count as ammunition.

The filters are using the same template as glow sticks, and I have the masks set up so when the filter expires, you disassemble the mask to retrieve the filter. Wish I could get the reload eject flag for firearms to work with the masks though, it would make things so much smoother. Plus, disassembling a mask with an expired filter attached will only give you a specific filter, which is slightly annoying. (ex. GP-5 will always give a standard filter even if loaded with an improved filter.)

Content wise, its pretty much done, save for the NATO suits. I’ll update the link sometime in the next day or two, once I get the recipes ironed out for the book.

[AdonaiJr]

So, today I stumbled on a video on facebook about a makeshift gas mask (as maybe some of you know, Brazil is raging on protests about our “president”). I searched everywhere on (vanilla) json files and couldn’t find a sort of makeshift mask like this:

Giovani de Morais

So: Gallon Jug, Duct tape, Rubber hose or String, Rags and Vinegar.

Could make a cool addition to game.

Sorry if a item like this already exists.

[pisskop]

Even a damp rag offers more protection than a dust mask. For a time.