# Game too easy, armor too good?

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/game-too-easy-armor-too-good/6147>\
**Category:** The Bunker\
**Created:** [May 16, 2014, 5:05am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/game-too-easy-armor-too-good/6147 "2014-05-16T05:05:23Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![FunsizeNinja123](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/funsizeninja123/32/118_2.png) [@FunsizeNinja123](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/FunsizeNinja123)\
**Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 9:31pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/game-too-easy-armor-too-good/6147/21 "2014-05-20T21:31:56Z")

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They don’t bite like us. They feel nothing, especially pain, where “humans” kind of are at a weak point and stop themselfs from loosing teeth or ripping off their arms for something.

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**Author:** ![Faldegort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/df788c/32.png) [@Faldegort](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Faldegort)\
**Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 11:20pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/game-too-easy-armor-too-good/6147/22 "2014-05-20T23:20:29Z")

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> [@FunsizeNinja123](#):
>
> They don’t bite like us. They feel nothing, especially pain, where “humans” kind of are at a weak point and stop themselfs from loosing teeth or ripping off their arms for something.

jajaj. not for nothing I put “more or less”. The calcic nature of the theets is quite a limitant, not mentioning the bite strengh limit. Not for nothing the sick people of Dwarf fortress defined a big list of mechanical parameters for every material they use…

In other case, the problem would not be in the armour but in the zed attack.

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**Author:** ![Grendus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bcef8e/32.png) [@Grendus](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Grendus)\
**Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 12:21am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/game-too-easy-armor-too-good/6147/23 "2014-05-21T00:21:22Z")

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I’ve been playing with the current restriction of only wearing one article of clothing per slot (close, normal, outer, and belted), not moving carts while zombies are on top of them, and not using Soldering Irons to repair metal weapons. It does a good job of making combat a bit more dangerous. A shopping cart does a good job of mitigating the danger against a single zombie, but against groups they quickly surround you. Shockers are pretty brutal regardless, and hunters and grabbers can get a few blows in if you aren’t quick about it. Tough and fat zombies are just time consuming speed bumps. Without easy access to steel or reinforced weapons, combat is a lot more threatening even against common undead without being overwhelming.

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**Author:** ![FunsizeNinja123](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/funsizeninja123/32/118_2.png) [@FunsizeNinja123](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/FunsizeNinja123)\
**Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/game-too-easy-armor-too-good/6147/24 "2014-05-21T00:38:13Z")

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Just make a quarterstaff… It’s pretty good.

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**Author:** ![Grendus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bcef8e/32.png) [@Grendus](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Grendus)\
**Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 12:49am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/game-too-easy-armor-too-good/6147/25 "2014-05-21T00:49:31Z")

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That’s what I’m using. Like I said, it’s not hard, but there’s an element of risk without every zombie being a life or death decision which is a well struck balance I think. If we could get skill rust to be less frustrating (I stopped using First Aid for half a day and forgot half a point… kind of much), I think it would be less of an issue.

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**Author:** ![FunsizeNinja123](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/funsizeninja123/32/118_2.png) [@FunsizeNinja123](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/FunsizeNinja123)\
**Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 1:02am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/game-too-easy-armor-too-good/6147/26 "2014-05-21T01:02:33Z")

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I like turning off skill rust… But I can see how it’s annoying.

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**Author:** ![acehawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/65b543/32.png) [@acehawk](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/acehawk)\
**Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/game-too-easy-armor-too-good/6147/27 "2014-05-21T17:13:49Z")

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Skill rust is insane at the moment, I’ve taken to always turning it off for now… But I’ve read that there are plans to improve it down the road.

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**Author:** ![Belteshazzar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Belteshazzar](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Belteshazzar)\
**Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/game-too-easy-armor-too-good/6147/28 "2014-05-21T18:28:10Z")

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Tool using enemies (lunatics, mutants, survivors, certain extra-dimensionals) may help, getting slammed with a sledgehammer, nailbat or homewrecker would certainly make things interesting, and could provide a non-crafting source and demonstration of such cobbled together weapons.

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**Author:** ![acehawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/65b543/32.png) [@acehawk](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/acehawk)\
**Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 8:48pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/game-too-easy-armor-too-good/6147/29 "2014-05-21T20:48:06Z")

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> [@FunsizeNinja123](#):
>
> They don’t bite like us. They feel nothing, especially pain, where “humans” kind of are at a weak point and stop themselfs from loosing teeth or ripping off their arms for something.

But human anatomy can only create so much bite force before it would destroy itself, and I don’t think it could get through much armor before reaching that point, even without pain. Regular zeds only have minimal alterations, right?  
Now, hunters would probably have significant jaw mutations that would make their bites far nastier.

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**Author:** ![Shadowchaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Shadowchaser](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Shadowchaser)\
**Post date:** [May 21, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/game-too-easy-armor-too-good/6147/30 "2014-05-21T21:47:28Z")

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> [@acehawk](#):
>
> Skill rust is insane at the moment, I’ve taken to always turning it off for now… But I’ve read that there are plans to improve it down the road.

“Man, I spent two weeks building this car from scratch, with jury-rigged parts from other cars welded into place and everything works! Dude, this thing is awesome. It even has LASER GUNS. But that was a month ago and now a wheel fell off and I’ve since forgotten how to change a tire. Oh well, guess I have to start all over!”

I turn skill rust off too.

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**Author:** ![Grendus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bcef8e/32.png) [@Grendus](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Grendus)\
**Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 3:11am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/game-too-easy-armor-too-good/6147/31 "2014-05-24T03:11:27Z")

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> [@acehawk](#):
>
> [quote=“FunsizeNinja123, post:21, topic:6147”]They don’t bite like us. They feel nothing, especially pain, where “humans” kind of are at a weak point and stop themselfs from loosing teeth or ripping off their arms for something.

But human anatomy can only create so much bite force before it would destroy itself, and I don’t think it could get through much armor before reaching that point, even without pain. Regular zeds only have minimal alterations, right?  
Now, hunters would probably have significant jaw mutations that would make their bites far nastier.[/quote]

I could see hunters, brutes, tanks, and grabbers having mutated jaws and/or claws to do bonus damage. Rot-weilers, Z9’s, and Zolfs should have very strong bites as well, Canines have extremely strong jaws.

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**Author:** ![KA101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/278dde/32.png) [@KA101](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/KA101)\
**Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 8:42am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/game-too-easy-armor-too-good/6147/32 "2014-05-24T08:42:54Z")

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> [@Grendus](#):
>
> [quote=“acehawk, post:29, topic:6147”][quote=“FunsizeNinja123, post:21, topic:6147”]They don’t bite like us. They feel nothing, especially pain, where “humans” kind of are at a weak point and stop themselfs from loosing teeth or ripping off their arms for something.

But human anatomy can only create so much bite force before it would destroy itself, and I don’t think it could get through much armor before reaching that point, even without pain. Regular zeds only have minimal alterations, right?  
Now, hunters would probably have significant jaw mutations that would make their bites far nastier.[/quote]

I could see hunters, brutes, tanks, and grabbers having mutated jaws and/or claws to do bonus damage. Rot-weilers, Z9’s, and Zolfs should have very strong bites as well, Canines have extremely strong jaws.[/quote]

Really make special zed-dogs, already some of the most annoying and dangerous critters in DDA, more dangerous? Y/N (capitals required)

Brutes and tanks are more the blunt force than the jaws & claws, but hunters and grabbers might justify upgrades.

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**Author:** ![Grendus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bcef8e/32.png) [@Grendus](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Grendus)\
**Post date:** [May 24, 2014, 3:25pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/game-too-easy-armor-too-good/6147/33 "2014-05-24T15:25:06Z")

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> [@KA101](#):
>
> [quote=“Grendus, post:31, topic:6147”][quote=“acehawk, post:29, topic:6147”][quote=“FunsizeNinja123, post:21, topic:6147”]They don’t bite like us. They feel nothing, especially pain, where “humans” kind of are at a weak point and stop themselfs from loosing teeth or ripping off their arms for something.

But human anatomy can only create so much bite force before it would destroy itself, and I don’t think it could get through much armor before reaching that point, even without pain. Regular zeds only have minimal alterations, right?  
Now, hunters would probably have significant jaw mutations that would make their bites far nastier.[/quote]

I could see hunters, brutes, tanks, and grabbers having mutated jaws and/or claws to do bonus damage. Rot-weilers, Z9’s, and Zolfs should have very strong bites as well, Canines have extremely strong jaws.[/quote]

Really make special zed-dogs, already some of the most annoying and dangerous critters in DDA, more dangerous? Y/N (capitals required)

Brutes and tanks are more the blunt force than the jaws & claws, but hunters and grabbers might justify upgrades.[/quote]

Once they get zombies mutating over time, seeing even stronger basic zeds shouldn’t be a problem. Kind of like how Zolfs start showing up a few months in, after you’ve learned a little about combat.

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**Author:** ![acehawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/65b543/32.png) [@acehawk](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/acehawk)\
**Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 3:36am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/game-too-easy-armor-too-good/6147/34 "2014-05-27T03:36:37Z")

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> [@KA101](#):
>
> [quote=“Grendus, post:31, topic:6147”][quote=“acehawk, post:29, topic:6147”][quote=“FunsizeNinja123, post:21, topic:6147”]They don’t bite like us. They feel nothing, especially pain, where “humans” kind of are at a weak point and stop themselfs from loosing teeth or ripping off their arms for something.

But human anatomy can only create so much bite force before it would destroy itself, and I don’t think it could get through much armor before reaching that point, even without pain. Regular zeds only have minimal alterations, right?  
Now, hunters would probably have significant jaw mutations that would make their bites far nastier.[/quote]

I could see hunters, brutes, tanks, and grabbers having mutated jaws and/or claws to do bonus damage. Rot-weilers, Z9’s, and Zolfs should have very strong bites as well, Canines have extremely strong jaws.[/quote]

Really make special zed-dogs, already some of the most annoying and dangerous critters in DDA, more dangerous? Y/N (capitals required)

Brutes and tanks are more the blunt force than the jaws & claws, but hunters and grabbers might justify upgrades.[/quote]

y… damn!

Y!

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**Author:** ![Bonevomit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Bonevomit](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Bonevomit)\
**Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 4:29am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/game-too-easy-armor-too-good/6147/35 "2014-05-27T04:29:52Z")

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too fucking easy. I play this shit without armor and I still don’t have any trouble.

I’ll probably do a mod or something that makes the game harder.

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**Author:** ![The\_Lone\_Badger](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/the_lone_badger/32/8063_2.png) [@The\_Lone\_Badger](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/The_Lone_Badger)\
**Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 9:26am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/game-too-easy-armor-too-good/6147/36 "2014-05-27T09:26:02Z")

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The only zombie that’s really dangerous to a mature character is the Shocker, with its guaranteed damage.

I did find something that can kill even a prepared survivor. Throwing the wrong stick of dynamite.

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**Author:** ![youtoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/779978/32.png) [@youtoo](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/youtoo)\
**Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 11:31am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/game-too-easy-armor-too-good/6147/37 "2014-05-27T11:31:50Z")

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Maybe we should look at using fatigue. Heavier armor slows you and you get tired faster. So you don’t fight as well. Right now people have stamina like a terminator. You can exercise fatigue so it slowly gets better, but there are limits.

Will make increasing zombie spawn sizes more interesting.

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**Author:** ![Jakers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3ab097/32.png) [@Jakers](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Jakers)\
**Post date:** [May 27, 2014, 12:00pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/game-too-easy-armor-too-good/6147/38 "2014-05-27T12:00:47Z")

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[quote=“youtoo, post:37, topic:6147”]Maybe we should look at using fatigue. Heavier armor slows you and you get tired faster. So you don’t fight as well. Right now people have stamina like a terminator. You can exercise fatigue so it slowly gets better, but there are limits.

Will make increasing zombie spawn sizes more interesting.[/quote]

Although it’s a good idea, that would take a lot of work, and melee and dodge skill penalties are already given according to the encumbrance of the armour - so wearing 5 scrap suits at once would make you usless in a fight. A solution to this problem would be to always guarantee the hit does one point of damage - a bit like the blocking systems on games like Tekken so you aren’t invincible if you just stand there blocking - although it does pretty much do no damage (bit still a little!)

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**Author:** ![greenpanda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@greenpanda](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/greenpanda)\
**Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/game-too-easy-armor-too-good/6147/39 "2014-06-02T17:19:34Z")

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Looks like this issue is being addressed.

> <https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/7773#issuecomment-44772904>

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**Author:** ![latogato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b9bd4f/32.png) [@latogato](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/latogato)\
**Post date:** [June 2, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/game-too-easy-armor-too-good/6147/40 "2014-06-02T18:12:04Z")

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This change made the game much better, imho while the armors are still a little overpowered, i had to use first aid kits and bandages the first time in my current game!

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