Fragile skulls?

[Pumbletron]

In latest experimental, a skeleton two hit me dead by hits to the head. From full, to yellow, to dead. Is that normal?

[Murphy]

In latest experimental, a skeleton two hit me dead by hits to the head. From full, to yellow, to dead. Is that normal?

No, unless your character had some of the hp-lowering traits.
Bad RNG and lack of helmet?

[Pumbletron]

Yeah, no hp lowering or nothing, but no helmet.

[troll_from_behind]

Been noticing the same thing, hits to the head seem more deadly than they used to be.
KO from a bear while in full health w/ strength 15 from a single swipe made me cry.

[Random_dragon]

Boom, headshot? owo

EDIT: Tested a thing using power armor sans helmet, the self-aware trait, and a bear. Of the two hits it got my head with, their damage results were 34 and 46. Way above the monster’s .json definition listing 4d6+4, same amount the wiki still says it is.

I’m assuming that monsters can only do cut damage, not piercing damage, right? If some part of this stat block I’m failing to pay attention to gives bears and skeletons piercing damage, then it would have to be the piercing change. If not, then head damage might be multiplied now.

EDIT 2: Most likely that head damage is flat-out doubled.

Code Excerpt:

/*
    It almost looks like damage may be getting applied twice in some cases.
 */
case bp_mouth: // Fall through to head damage
case bp_head:
    hp_cur[hp_head] -= dam; //this looks like an extra damage hit, as is applied in apply_damage from player::apply_damage()
    if (hp_cur[hp_head] < 0) {
        lifetime_stats()->damage_taken+=hp_cur[hp_head];
        hp_cur[hp_head] = 0;
    }
    break;

[Yossarian23]

Seems TREMENDOUSLY reasonable that an ADULT BEAR would one hit kill you by hitting you in the head. That’s how it should work.

[troll_from_behind]

EVEN, when speaking of character twice tougher than average human wielding a hockey mask?
Nope.

[joxer]

[quote=“troll from behind, post:7, topic:9803”]EVEN, when speaking of character twice tougher than average human wielding a hockey mask?
Nope.[/quote]
Wearing*

however tough he is the thickness of the skull is however quite average
a fractured skull is a bloody fractured skull.

Tho i am of the same mind as Random_ yet again.
the values are way off. If it was intended as a feature then head’s HP would be lowered ( i assume )

speaking of which, Do bears hit other body parts for as much damage?
( It seems that the moose has recruited the bear to the A-Team. )

[Blackite]

[quote=“joxer, post:8, topic:9803”][quote=“troll from behind, post:7, topic:9803”]EVEN, when speaking of character twice tougher than average human wielding a hockey mask?
Nope.[/quote]
Wearing*

however tough he is the thickness of the skull is however quite average
a fractured skull is a bloody fractured skull.

Tho i am of the same mind as Random_ yet again.
the values are way off. If it was intended as a feature then head’s HP would be lowered ( i assume )

speaking of which, Do bears hit other body parts for as much damage?
( It seems that the moose has recruited the bear to the A-Team. )[/quote]

Well it is possible to make bone denser, and so tougher and harder to damage. Even to the point of it being tougher than stone (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_l-WgEQjpU) ( Got to the 55 min mark for the start). As for the limit to strengthening, who knows?

Same video at the 57 minute mark shows that a person can strengthen their skull at least to the point where they can survive something without damage that would kill a normal person.

[joxer]

This video contains content from National Geographic, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.

Sucks to be me eh :F apologies i won’t be commenting on that piece of footage but regardless…

Far as knew skeleton toughness was rather something defined by our dna rather than muscle mass
granted- a really lousy diet or an extremely prolonged of period of time without gravity pushing us against the earth may cause it to “dissolve back into our bodies” ( not as litherally as it sounds )

While you could certainly claim that there are ways to strengthen your skeleton
besides that more often than not these practices will only get it back to the norm if one was for some reason below it
The died/excersize related to it won’t directly increase your muscle mass ( STR ) closest stat to toughness? Unless your statement was arbitrary or one of the other three stats affects the amount of damage we’re able to take in CDDA

[Blackite]

[quote=“joxer, post:10, topic:9803”]This video contains content from National Geographic, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.
Sucks to be me eh :F apologies i won’t be commenting on that piece of footage but regardless…

Far as knew skeleton toughness was rather something defined by our dna rather than muscle mass
granted- a really lousy diet or an extremely prolonged of period of time without gravity pushing us against the earth may cause it to “dissolve back into our bodies” ( not as litherally as it sounds )

While you could certainly claim that there are ways to strengthen your skeleton
besides that more often than not these practices will only get it back to the norm if one was for some reason below it
The died/excersize related to it won’t directly increase your muscle mass ( STR ) closest stat to toughness? Unless your statement was arbitrary or one of the other three stats affects the amount of damage we’re able to take in CDDA[/quote]

Actually bone strength have nothing to do with muscle mass or muscle density. Instead your bones strengthen when they break and reheal properly. Of course proper nutrients and such things are no doubt vitally important for maximum strengthening.

So maybe some kind of system can be implemented where the more you get hurt the tougher you get.

[Blackite]

I just found on the net that a bear can take a moose’s head off with a single hit. So I support a one hit kill from a bear. Nevertheless I quite like the idea of being able to toughen up. I met some people who could take a severe beating with some sticks and shrug it off as if it was nothing, so a regular zombie would not be able to harm him without biting.

However there should be a restriction. Maybe toughening up would only reduce blunt damage?

[joxer]

So maybe some kind of system can be implemented where the more you get hurt the tougher you get.

Didn’t mean to mock the good lad, was just pointing out that it wasn’t an existing mechanic

Also bones breaking… The “rehealing” process may go very wrong and infact cripple you for the rest of your life
( You’d need to break it and do your best to let it heal properly to fix it )

As a game mechanic i can see some quite brutal implications, something for the wiser of us to think about
for instance it would take much longer to let your bones heal if you break a limb or crack your skull slightly
( No need to fuss about it btw, it’s happened to twice :F )

first few minutes thinking about it i’d say it’s better to leave it to mutations and CBM’s

@ your second post
while i won’t dismiss it being a rather delightful concept the fact is that even mediocre clothes in cataclysm block the amount of blunt damage you’d expect a martial artist to be able to take
Edit: Also there’s This project starting up by DeNarr

[Pumbletron]

Hmm, I hope not. I kinda liked how it worked before

[Coolthulhu]

May be one of those cases where fixing an old bug enabled an even older feature that never worked.

If no one likes it, it probably is fine to remove it.
Along with the blinding on hit in eyes and increased recoil on hit in arms. Those features are so incredibly minor that they never matter at all. The blinding would require some heavy damage to happen, while the recoil increase is so minor that it can’t ever really matter.

[joxer]

[quote=“Coolthulhu, post:15, topic:9803”]May be one of those cases where fixing an old bug enabled an even older feature that never worked.

If no one likes it, it probably is fine to remove it.
Along with the blinding on hit in eyes and increased recoil on hit in arms. Those features are so incredibly minor that they never matter at all. The blinding would require some heavy damage to happen, while the recoil increase is so minor that it can’t ever really matter.[/quote]

Honestly i’d like to better understand the “feature” before saying anything

It’s not bears that deal the immense damage but rather that damage on heads is multiplied? how does that work exactly.
edit: From a design perspective

The temporary blindness from being hit in the eyes- I’m pretty sure this feature was ingame when i first started playing
Getting hit in the arms increases recoil- Good stuff right there.
Many many of the special zombies added are all about making the life of melee / unarmed focused survivors a nightmare
i feel that these two features atleast provide some retribution.

[Random_dragon]

May be one of those cases where fixing an old bug enabled an even older feature that never worked.

See my quoting of player.cpp for the cause of the skull issue. As for the piercing damage, no bloody idea. :V

[Coolthulhu]

[quote=“joxer, post:16, topic:9803”]The temporary blindness from being hit in the eyes- I’m pretty sure this feature was ingame when i first started playing
Getting hit in the arms increases recoil- Good stuff right there.
Many many of the special zombies added are all about making the life of melee / unarmed focused survivors a nightmare
i feel that these two features atleast provide some retribution.[/quote]

They don’t. They’re so extremely minor that they could as well become flavor messages with no mechanical effects.
You’d need to take an 8 damage (or 4 cutting damage) hit to the eyes for the blinding effect to even last a single turn. Taking an 8 damage eye hit would result in 16 damage to the head and thus also 16 pain. 16 pain is much worse than a turn of blindness. You can’t even take a hit to the eyes at range - you have to be in melee range for it to happen.
Add to it the fact that it’s easy to protect the eyes and quadruply so if you are playing a melee character who doesn’t need to care about eye encumbrance.

As for the arm damage and recoil - it matters even less than blinding. You get 3 recoil for every point of damage to the torso and 5 to the arms. Taking 20 damage would result in only 100 recoil - a value too small to matter at the range you’d be using a shotgun or a pistol.

The recoil increasing feature is so incredibly minor, you almost certainly wouldn’t notice it in game without knowing what to search for.

[joxer]

I’ve noticed the blindness many times now, granted mainly with survivors who weren’t prepared for it but still, It always made me grateful i’ve had a measure of melee competence aswell.
The recoil, Admitably i’ve never noticed it ( Beside when checking the code Random_ posted in player.cpp, The recoil was in the same block so to speak )
It’s good in concept, all i can truly say to that. Perhaps it could work as more of a debuff.
( Your hands/arms were hit, It’s gonna take [x] long for you to regain steady control over them )

Also

Taking an 8 damage eye hit would result in 16 damage to the head

seems rather brutal, Damage magnification in general.
One could say that it would count as a crit, altho crits are calculated on their own - so in theory you could get 4x damage if a crit lands on your eyes right?
besides doesn’t the whole concept of damage stacking on eyes would also suggest protection stacking aswell?

One reasonable way of handling it would be providing health values for the eyes, While it would have a potential of nerfing ranged combat. Tho it would be a cluttery way of handling it i suspect.
Which i doubt was the desirably goal in any case.

In any case you’d have to be in melee range to begin with to take these penalties which serves as more of a reason to keep your distance i guess.

[kevin.granade]

[quote=“Coolthulhu, post:18, topic:9803”]As for the arm damage and recoil - it matters even less than blinding. You get 3 recoil for every point of damage to the torso and 5 to the arms. Taking 20 damage would result in only 100 recoil - a value too small to matter at the range you’d be using a shotgun or a pistol.

The recoil increasing feature is so incredibly minor, you almost certainly wouldn’t notice it in game without knowing what to search for.[/quote]
This likely wasn’t rescaled along with dispersion a while back, so it needs to be multiplied by 20.