# Fortifications: Pillboxes, Moats, Electrified Fences, Etc

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/fortifications-pillboxes-moats-electrified-fences-etc/17871>\
**Category:** The Drawing Board\
**Created:** [December 12, 2018, 1:55pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/fortifications-pillboxes-moats-electrified-fences-etc/17871 "2018-12-12T13:55:11Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![nameless\_survivor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/nameless_survivor/32/4476_2.png) [@nameless\_survivor](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/nameless_survivor)\
**Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 1:55pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/fortifications-pillboxes-moats-electrified-fences-etc/17871/1 "2018-12-12T13:55:11Z")

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In a post-cataclysm world, only the most heavily fortified of settlements will be viable in the long term. It would be nice to have the addition of the ability to construct additional fortifications than what is presently available.

**Pillboxes:**  
Currently you can make SOMETHING like this with walls on the sides and sandbag half-walls in the front, but I was thinking it might be nice to have a concrete or metal wall section that obstructs movement but not firing, like a firing slit. This would make pillboxes more viable than having only a wimpy sandbag wall between you and that skeletal juggernaut.

> **[Pillbox (military)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillbox_(military))**
>
> A pillbox is a type of blockhouse, or concrete dug-in guard post, normally equipped with loopholes through which to fire weapons. It is in effect a trench firing step hardened to protect against small-arms fire and grenades and raised to improve the field of fire.
> The origin of the term is disputed. It has been widely assumed to be a jocular reference to the perceived similarity of the fortifications to the cylindrical and hexagonal boxes in which medical pills were once sold. However, it seems ...

  

> **[Arrowslit](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrowslit)**
>
> An arrowslit (often also referred to as an arrow loop, loophole or loop hole, and sometimes a balistarium) is a narrow vertical aperture in a fortification through which an archer can launch arrows.
> The interior walls behind an arrow loop are often cut away at an oblique angle so that the archer has a wide field of view and field of fire. Arrow slits come in a remarkable variety. A common and recognizable form is the cross, accommodating the use of both the longbow and the crossbow. The narrow ...

**Electric Fences:**  
This is probably something that would have to come after power grids and appliances are working, but the ability to electrify a chain-link or barbed wire fence would be cool. Have a solar array or generator and hook it up with jumper cables to a transformer built adjacent to the fence section, and all contiguous fence sections get electrified.

> **[Electric fence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_fence)**
>
> An electric fence is a barrier that uses electric shocks to deter animals and people from crossing a boundary. The voltage of the shock may have effects ranging from discomfort to death. Most electric fences are used today for agricultural fencing and other forms of animal control, although they are frequently used to enhance the security of sensitive areas, such as military installations, prisons, and other security sensitive places; places exist where lethal voltages are used.
> Electric fences ...

**Moats:**  
Of course, everyone knows about the humble moat. Being able to dig a trench around your base and fill it with a liquid to slow down attackers would be nice. Or even better, fill it with something that will outright kill them. Why fill it with just water when you could throw in some man-eating SEWERANHA? Or better yet, forget water, fill it with concentrated acid to dissolve enemies, or gasoline/diesel/napalm to create a wall of fire in a dire emergency.

> **[Moat](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moat)**
>
> A moat is a deep, broad ditch, either dry or filled with water, that is dug and surrounds a castle, fortification, building or town, historically to provide it with a preliminary line of defence. In some places moats evolved into more extensive water defences, including natural or artificial lakes, dams and sluices. In older fortifications, such as hillforts, they are usually referred to simply as ditches, although the function is similar. In later periods, moats or water defences may be largely ...

**Security Gate/Portcullis**  
The regular wooden gate is a bit limited. Why bother building concrete walls if the gate is made out of WOOD? The ability to construct a large opaque plate steel security gate or portcullis would be an excellent addition to fill this gap. Might need an engine, electric motor, or gearing & pulley system to lift.

> **[Portcullis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portcullis)**
>
> A portcullis (from the French porte coulissante, "sliding door") is a heavy vertically-closing gate typically found in medieval fortifications, consisting of a latticed grille made of wood, metal, or a combination of the two, which slides down grooves inset within each jamb of the gateway.
> Portcullises fortified the entrances to many medieval castles, securely closing off the castle during time of attack or siege. Every portcullis was mounted in vertical grooves in the walls of the castle and co...

Foxholes/Defensive Positions/Trenches  
The humble shallow pit would be nice if it added some additional bonuses to defense or reduction of a chance for an enemy outside it to hit with a ranged attack. Combined with sandbag half-walls, it would make a nice defensive position. Or if you wanted to make a series of connected foxholes, it would become a trench network.

> **[Defensive fighting position](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_fighting_position)**
>
> A defensive fighting position (DFP) is a type of earthwork constructed in a military context, generally large enough to accommodate anything from one soldier to a fire team (or similar sized unit).
> Tobruk type positions are named after the system of defensive positions constructed, initially, by the Italian Army at Tobruk, Libya. After Tobruk fell to the Allies in January 1941, the existing positions were modified and significantly expanded by the Australian Army which, along with other Allied f...

  

> **[Trench warfare](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trench_warfare)**
>
> Trench warfare is a type of land warfare using occupied fighting lines consisting largely of military trenches, in which troops are well-protected from the enemy's small arms fire and are substantially sheltered from artillery. The most famous use of trench warfare is the Western Front in World War I. It has become a byword for stalemate, attrition, sieges, and futility in conflict.
> Trench warfare occurred when a revolution in firepower was not matched by similar advances in mobility, resulting...

These are just a few examples of some of the many various defensive constructions which could potentially be made available.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Darkfirephoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7993a0/32.png) [@Darkfirephoenix](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Darkfirephoenix)\
**Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 2:39pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/fortifications-pillboxes-moats-electrified-fences-etc/17871/2 "2018-12-12T14:39:53Z")

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One would think that simple bars on a windowframe (without the glass ofc) would allow ya to shoot through it and block enemies from passing through it. Arrowslits would also be a good idea tho you would only really be able to look through if you are directly next to it/if you are further away you can only look 1 tile in at max.

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**Author:** ![nameless\_survivor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/nameless_survivor/32/4476_2.png) [@nameless\_survivor](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/nameless_survivor)\
**Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 2:52pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/fortifications-pillboxes-moats-electrified-fences-etc/17871/3 "2018-12-12T14:52:27Z")

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> [@Darkfirephoenix](#):
>
> One would think that simple bars on a windowframe (without the glass ofc) would allow ya to shoot through it and block enemies from passing through it.

I had not considered that. Wouldn’t be as robust as a concrete firing slit, but it would do for now. And yes, the limited visibility any player, NPC, or monster not adjacent to the slit would be nice as well, so zombies can’t just see into your base from a mile away, but you could still shoot out of it if you are adjacent.

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 4:31pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/fortifications-pillboxes-moats-electrified-fences-etc/17871/4 "2018-12-12T16:31:38Z")

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There’s an interesting change here, in that all of these fortifications are intended to defend against humans using human weapons, the kind of defences you need for zombies are different and mostly smaller in scale.

The barred window instead of an arrow slit is a great example, you don’t have to worry as much about zombies firing back at you, as you don’t have massed arrow or gun fire. You do have spitters and shockers, but that’s quite different than the long-ranged projectile fire you would get from humans.

To a first approximation, I expect all you really want is a medium-sized wall or berm that you can use to stop zombie rushes while leaving them vulnerable to counterattack. Spitters and shockers would probably need to be dealt with using targeted ranged attacks.

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**Author:** ![nameless\_survivor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/nameless_survivor/32/4476_2.png) [@nameless\_survivor](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/nameless_survivor)\
**Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 4:40pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/fortifications-pillboxes-moats-electrified-fences-etc/17871/5 "2018-12-12T16:40:52Z")

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> [@kevin.granade](#):
>
> There’s an interesting change here, in that all of these fortifications are intended to defend against humans using human weapons, the kind of defences you need for zombies are different and mostly smaller in scale.

I actually thought about this before initially posting, and I do agree. You don’t need a trench network, foxholes, or firing slits for fighting zombies. However if roving bands of marauders or assaults by enemy factions, etc are ever implemented, being able to build defenses that will work efficiently vs humans or other intelligent enemies that have ranged attacks (bandit with an assault rifle, mi-go with an alien death ray, etc) would be prudent.

Also, a number of these would work just as well against zombies as humans. A moat still acts as a barrier to slow a zombie while it gets picked off by ranged weapons, and would function especially well when it is filled with angry mutant fish. An electric fence would fry zombies (except maybe the shockers) just as well, and would also work against mutant creatures. A portcullis or steel security gate will still keep things out while being more durable than a flimsy wooden gate, and would hold up better against a skeletal juggernaut or zombie hulk.

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/fortifications-pillboxes-moats-electrified-fences-etc/17871/6 "2018-12-12T17:41:56Z")

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Thise will _work_, that’s not the issue, the problem is the resource cost.  
You can put up a wood pallisaide for a tiny fraction of the cost of putting up a stone or concrete wall.

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**Author:** ![nameless\_survivor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/nameless_survivor/32/4476_2.png) [@nameless\_survivor](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/nameless_survivor)\
**Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/fortifications-pillboxes-moats-electrified-fences-etc/17871/7 "2018-12-12T17:56:51Z")

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> [@kevin.granade](#):
>
> You can put up a wood pallisaide for a tiny fraction of the cost of putting up a stone or concrete wall.

You are absolutely right of course, and initially that is EXACTLY what you would want to do, because it would be easy to build, cheap, and the resources to do it would be plentiful. It would work great for quite a while too. But as time passes a base/settlement will become larger and more developed, more people move in, noise levels increase, etc. Its going to start drawing a lot more attention from both the undead and the living.

Eventually, that wood palisade just won’t cut it anymore and upgrading will become more of a necessity, by which time the inhabitants should be well established enough that procuring materials and labor to build a stone or concrete wall won’t be nearly as much as an obstruction as it would be for a lone survivor or a small group of 2-8 people.

I personally have 11 followers at my base already, and 45 or more sitting at an apartment complex waiting for me to transport them back (there were enough scattered around the place it was difficult to get a head count, I suspect there may be as many as 100 there). Manpower and resource procurement would not be an issue for players like myself getting into the late game.

 ![0e980bd3f5a1c7424f5d940c021e7bb0cd6db253_1_1035x550](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/cataclysmdda/original/2X/0/087bbbe128050b10f2042bb7e4c25eb5f1776fc6.jpeg)

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Malkeus](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/malkeus/32/12037_2.png) [@Malkeus](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Malkeus)\
**Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 9:58pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/fortifications-pillboxes-moats-electrified-fences-etc/17871/8 "2018-12-12T21:58:30Z")

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I look at that picture and all I see is a massive friendly fire incident waiting to happen. What kind of settings are you using to avoid that?

On topic, I propose a new type of vehicle part, essentially a gasoline sprayer oriented upwards with a steel grate over top that acts as an AISLE. When activated it creates a contained fire that will ignite and cause burn damage to anything walking through it’s tile(note, not items on the ground, presumably below the flames). I suppose these could be used as portable cook fires too. Breaking it would spread gasoline and/or flames. I envision a square of these surrounding quarterpanels with me and a crew of NPC’s plinking away.

Also, is there any chance of filling moats with things other than water? An acid moat would be awesome!

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**Author:** ![nameless\_survivor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/nameless_survivor/32/4476_2.png) [@nameless\_survivor](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/nameless_survivor)\
**Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 10:00pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/fortifications-pillboxes-moats-electrified-fences-etc/17871/9 "2018-12-12T22:00:11Z")

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Not much except guarding or bringing one or two with me right now. I’d never bring them all with me at once. I plan to stuff all these guys into my bunker once I dig out some rooms for them, and leave them there until such time as NPC AI gets fixed, and they are no longer a danger to themselves and others.

> [@Malkeus](#):
>
> Also, is there any chance of filling moats with things other than water? An acid moat would be awesome!

Well, kevin doesn’t seem to like the moat idea or the other stuff, so I’m not seeing it happening. And I don’t have the expertise in coding/modding yet to make a mod for it, otherwise there would be an acid moat mod already.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Malkeus](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/malkeus/32/12037_2.png) [@Malkeus](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Malkeus)\
**Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 10:03pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/fortifications-pillboxes-moats-electrified-fences-etc/17871/10 "2018-12-12T22:03:20Z")

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I looked at the picture again…a scenario popped into my head about a single crawler zombie coming around the corner in front of the group. The guys in the front of the group would be annihilated by the gunfire from behind and the survivors would be like, “Hold on, I want to pulp that crawler zombie corpse!” x 11

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![nameless\_survivor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/nameless_survivor/32/4476_2.png) [@nameless\_survivor](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/nameless_survivor)\
**Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 10:06pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/fortifications-pillboxes-moats-electrified-fences-etc/17871/11 "2018-12-12T22:06:09Z")

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Yep, thats exactly why my [super evacuation transport](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/whats-happening-in-your-randomly-generated-apocalypse-part-2/14511/893?u=nameless_survivor) to move everyone directly from the apartment complex is completely opaque, and these guys are going straight into the bunker from there. This crowd is a disaster waiting to happen.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Malkeus](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/malkeus/32/12037_2.png) [@Malkeus](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Malkeus)\
**Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 10:09pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/fortifications-pillboxes-moats-electrified-fences-etc/17871/12 "2018-12-12T22:09:53Z")

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Shake dat ass!  
 ![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/cataclysmdda/original/2X/c/cb8a2b11c31f6ad88f48067d565705610840dbff.png)  
In my imagination the pivot point is right there at the middle door, so when you turn corners the tail end destroys things.

[https://media1.tenor.com/images/3c64aa512178210ca8399973648d078b/tenor.gif?itemid=7358569(image larger than 3072KB)](https://media1.tenor.com/images/3c64aa512178210ca8399973648d078b/tenor.gif?itemid=7358569)

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Ricky\_Van](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/ricky_van/32/4666_2.png) [@Ricky\_Van](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Ricky_Van)\
**Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 11:06pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/fortifications-pillboxes-moats-electrified-fences-etc/17871/13 "2018-12-12T23:06:39Z")

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i was thinking about one possible bug/feature about bandits using these fort to attack player.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Mantar](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/mantar/32/42_2.png) [@Mantar](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Mantar)\
**Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 11:28pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/fortifications-pillboxes-moats-electrified-fences-etc/17871/14 "2018-12-12T23:28:31Z")

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> [@kevin.granade](#):
>
> You do have spitters and shockers

I would think iron bars should ground and dissipate a shocker’s attack, actually.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Ricky\_Van](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/ricky_van/32/4666_2.png) [@Ricky\_Van](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Ricky_Van)\
**Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 11:32pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/fortifications-pillboxes-moats-electrified-fences-etc/17871/15 "2018-12-12T23:32:55Z")

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but iron can conduct electricity.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![nameless\_survivor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/nameless_survivor/32/4476_2.png) [@nameless\_survivor](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/nameless_survivor)\
**Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 11:33pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/fortifications-pillboxes-moats-electrified-fences-etc/17871/16 "2018-12-12T23:33:45Z")

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Thats why it would ground it. Its conducting the charge to ground.

I agree. It would act like a lightning rod and ground the electric arc.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Ricky\_Van](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/ricky_van/32/4666_2.png) [@Ricky\_Van](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Ricky_Van)\
**Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 11:34pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/fortifications-pillboxes-moats-electrified-fences-etc/17871/17 "2018-12-12T23:34:37Z")

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ooh yes, the “Grounding” conduction.

that sounds good, but spitters’s acid?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![nameless\_survivor](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/nameless_survivor/32/4476_2.png) [@nameless\_survivor](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/nameless_survivor)\
**Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 11:36pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/fortifications-pillboxes-moats-electrified-fences-etc/17871/18 "2018-12-12T23:36:11Z")

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[https://www.amazon.com/Gateway-Safety-6980-Cover2-Glasses/dp/B012APFLNS/ref=sr\_1\_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1544657749&sr=8-10&keywords=safety+glasses](https://www.amazon.com/Gateway-Safety-6980-Cover2-Glasses/dp/B012APFLNS/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1544657749&sr=8-10&keywords=safety+glasses)

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Ricky\_Van](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/ricky_van/32/4666_2.png) [@Ricky\_Van](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Ricky_Van)\
**Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 11:37pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/fortifications-pillboxes-moats-electrified-fences-etc/17871/19 "2018-12-12T23:37:54Z")

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“you can melt my fort but not my eyes” 😆

can’t spit this.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 11:43pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/fortifications-pillboxes-moats-electrified-fences-etc/17871/20 "2018-12-12T23:43:30Z")

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If they’re grounded yes, if not they’ll just act as a transmission medium.

[Next page](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/fortifications-pillboxes-moats-electrified-fences-etc/17871.md?page=2)