Followers and the Guard command

[Invalid_Username]

So, I just had a very interesting death. I was in the middle of moving all my junk from the bottom of a lab to the top, so I told my three followers to guard so they would stay out of my way during the repeated trips. When I did, they dispersed, presumably to patrol the area that I told them to guard. After a while, however, I had no idea where the hell they went to, save one who decided to chill out right outside the lab and hug a corner of it.

On the last batch of trips, I was making for the surface when a Shoggoth, whose door I had unlocked but not opened, decided that this was where my game ended. What I’m guessing happened is that the followers I had told to guard somehow patrolled their dipshit way into the Shoggoth’s cell, where they were promptly devoured, leaving the door open for the metaphysical horror to have its way with my poor, helpless body.

Is this intentional? Are guarding followers supposed to do whatever the hell they damn well please, as opposed to sticking in place the way they did previously? If so, is there going to be a new command that gets them to stick in place the way they did previously? Telling them to guard seems a little counterproductive if all they’re gonna do is wander to and fro, making themselves unfindable and getting into mischief.

[mlangsdorf]

NPCs on guard investigate combat noises until they can see the source of the noise. Shoggoths smashing into walls make combat noises. The NPC investigated a noise, opened a door to see what was making the noise, and shenanigans occurred.

dpwb and I are very proud.

We can probably add a miscellaneous rule, “do/don’t investigate noises while guarding” so you can have control over NPC behavior Also, could add a no-investigate and investigate limit zones, so you can have NPCs that investigate noises but not noises from over there or not beyond this space that you specified.

[crazykiddeath]

Maybe a “don’t open/open doors” rule set similar to the “close open doors/leave open doors alone rule”? I know I’d be a bit more adventurous with my NPCs if I knew they weren’t going to path straight into known turret rooms.

[Invalid_Username]

NPCs on guard investigate combat noises until they can see the source of the noise. Shoggoths smashing into walls make combat noises. The NPC investigated a noise, opened a door to see what was making the noise, and shenanigans occurred.

dpwb and I are very proud.

Interesting. Had I known about that, I never would have told them to guard in the first place. Or never have unlocked the containment cells. Now I know. Pain is how we learn, is it not?

[Trigon]

That’s actually tragically hilarious. Part of me thinks that your missing NPCs probably got devoured investigating the same shoggoth sounds.

[mlangsdorf]

That’s an excellent idea that I can probably implement in a day or two.

[crazykiddeath]

I’ll build a monument to you in game if you do

[Saladofstones]

i can confirm that this also leads to weird behavior since they don’t always go back to where I told them to stay initially or they compromise a secure position by going out of cover, luring a bunch of zeds, which then overpower them and go through the opened gates. I’ve even had a couple of npcs do things like break windows or furniture to go investigate, which just adds more issues.

[Grimm_Spector]

There’s a number of QoL “stance” type things I’d ask for, for NPCs, but they’re not bad as an early implementation. I definitely dislike their suicidal tendency as is seen in so many other games.

I wish we could exclude targets, like z-slaves, maybe a maximum number of such favours based on how they feel about us, and a chance of failure based on speech, etc., like other things?

[Saladofstones]

For the Refugee Center, using the latest version (8712), complete chaos will unfold upon there being any noise outside, with people opening all the barred windows, some rushing outside, and people afterwards not going back in place afterwards. This can cause a lot of questlines to end suddenly when all the quest-NPCs die because they ran outside to deal with a zombie horde and ended up attracting the entire neighborhood.

[dpwb]

Them dying while investigating noises is not a bug, it’s emergent gameplay!
perhaps I could lower the alert radius for non-guards even more though, to ensure that guards are the only ones who go looking for trouble.

As for them not returning to position, that is a bug, they really should be doing that
( if they survive, that is ), I’ll look into that.

[Saladofstones]

I just think that for the refugee camp it doesn’t make sense given what we are told. The beggars all say that, for better or worse, they can’t fend for themselves and just live in the visitor’s lounge. I don’t see them willingly leaving their position. The guards, as well, have their postings inside various points of the refugee center, so while I can see them investigating, a big issue with the guards is that they will open the windows and that will lure more zombies in. Emergent gameplay is a thing, but to how the refugee center is structured, I don’t see any NPCs other than maybe a few guards being willing to go outside. The refugees themselves are all either exhausted, weak, or, to be blunt, unfit for combat in this harsh, gooey world. As well, the mercenary (who is presumabely just there to get a paycheck) causes the most issues since they will start breaking furniture.

This has gone really bad for the first quest from the merchant, to clear out the back bay, since the guards on the side with the wooden doors will break down the furniture and the doors and can either get killed outright (and thus the zeds proceed to wipe the entire center) or they shoot through me to get to the zeds. It also contradicts the reasoning the merchant gives (we’re too scared to open it), if the guards are willing to bust down the door guns blazing.

As far as the center goes, I did notice a couple of issues. There seems to be a spawn point by the guard to the left of the entrance, by where the rep/arsonist/merc lives, as often I come back to see a dead and pulped zed by them. For the most part its fine, but when using a delayed start, I’ve come across the guard having to deal with one (or more) Hulks, which usually I just use the command to kill all monsters since otherwise its a bloodbath. The other is that the merchant, and sometimes the arsonist or hunter, spawns with more goods than they can carry, which leads to an issue where you can’t do a trade with them until you buy enough that they go back to their threshhold. This I usually solve by giving them debug carrying capacity so that even if they get a lot of goods, they can still function (I handwave this as them using the lockers/space around them to store their goods).

[dpwb]

The behaviour of guards needs to be to investigate things they don’t think is normal.
Perhaps the refugee centre in general could be modified to make it’s perimeter safer somehow, so that guards arent always tempted outside, the reasoning being, they’ve survived so far, for them to collapse as soon as the player arrives dosnt make sense.

Perhaps an outside perimeter wall or something, I’ll discuss with the NPC/lore Dev person.

[mlangsdorf]

I think I’m going to create their patrol zone to the interior edge of the parking lot and then put a no investigate zone over the back bay. That should let them kill zombies trying to break into the windows without too many hijinks.

Hopefully I’ll have some coding time tomorrow and Monday.

[mlangsdorf]

After https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/29367 merges, you will be able to tell NPC followers not to open doors.

[crazykiddeath]

I’ll be updating when it comes through and begin looking for building supplies

[mlangsdorf]

You can now tell followers not to open doors and not to investigate noises. You can tell them to hold a chokepoint that you’re standing next to, but they’re not very good at it - doors work okay, fences don’t work at all, bushes are hit or miss.

[Invalid_Username]

I guess they never miss, huh?