Flamable Arrows 0.6

Tenoji · 2013-06-24T03:16:46.000Z

The only thing I want to point out then is that if you ignite them they burn infinitely. So you can still carry a boatload of flaming arrows, just gotta ignite your flammables after you make them.

Atleast in my game, which seems like it might have some unique bugs that I’m too lazy to compare to a fresh install since I like my current character too much >.>

Stevensonz · 2013-06-24T17:02:02.000Z

[quote=“Tenoji, post:4, topic:1894”]The only thing I want to point out then is that if you ignite them they burn infinitely. So you can still carry a boatload of flaming arrows, just gotta ignite your flammables after you make them.

Atleast in my game, which seems like it might have some unique bugs that I’m too lazy to compare to a fresh install since I like my current character too much >.>[/quote]

yeah were still working on making flaming arrows burn out one at time and disappear to simulate the arrow got burned completely. But other than that it’s the most satisfying effect I’ve seen so far.

KA101 · 2013-06-24T22:30:50.000Z

[quote=“Stevensonz, post:3, topic:1894”][quote=“Tenoji, post:1, topic:1894”]http://puu.sh/3myAg.png

Flammable arrows (misspelled as flamable ingame) are stupid heavy. That’s a set of 5 at 20 weight. Actual flaming arrows seem fine in my experience so far.

Otherwise they’re lovely though.

Sidenote: Sometimes when you ‘miss’ with an arrow, your target will still leave a bloodsplatter trail as if they were hit. I haven’t actually looked at them to see if they took damage despite the readout saying they’re unharmed by the attack.[/quote]

Balance reasons made them heavy as before you could easily stack X number of arrows with minimum weight penalty and yes their Ignite effects are one of the best on setting fire safely to monsters right now It’s nice to see a monster have that red highlight and die from it. (Exception of liquid,metal and stone monsters)[/quote]

How about assigning a lot of volume instead? Old-school flaming arrows had a big ol’ mass of flammable-Stuff near the head, and that wouldn’t stack well.

Stevensonz · 2013-06-24T22:36:20.000Z

most arrows have been changed to a higher weight to prevent stacking of too many arrows and not interfere with looting other stuff that needs volumes.

Bladerock · 2013-06-24T23:49:13.000Z

Simply put “You can’t carry any more arrows” as a message when you reach whatever arbitrary amount has been chosen to be “balanced” making them heavy or huge is stupid.

Loupkiller · 2013-06-24T23:53:54.000Z

Well, putting a artificial limit like that would be boring, what about making it so once your past that “limit” they can self combust from the friction and all that.

hehe

Some warning would be needed for the player tough.

woflsipder · 2013-06-24T23:55:44.000Z

well , having a stupid limit to how much you can have at the same time is ultra stupid , like the inventory limit of 75 items , what’s the point of gathering clothes to get as much volume as possible when you will only ever get to fill 40% of it and no more.

Bladerock · 2013-06-25T00:27:50.000Z

[quote=“Loupkiller, post:9, topic:1894”]Well, putting a artificial limit like that would be boring[/quote]Except, that’s exactly what giving them an unrealistic weight and/or volume already is: An artificial limit.

The only difference is that giving them unrealistic sizes and mass also gets in the way of other parts of gameplay (Your capacity to carry items that aren’t “broken”)

Stevensonz · 2013-06-25T00:37:02.000Z

Increasing of the weight factor for arrows is intentional as a balancing method given especially how powerful arrows are now with new effects.

Simply put we reduced how many arrows you can carry at a time because of the higher weight, and nothing is stopping you from carrying many arrows as long as your carry weight and volume can handle it and you can manage fine with being a turtle.

Also arrows have a chance to remain intact except ones with special effects and they are easily craft-able.

Bladerock · 2013-06-25T00:42:27.000Z

"Increasing of the weight factor for arrows is intentional as a balancing method "

“Simply put we reduced how many arrows you can carry at a time because of the higher weight.”

I hope i don’t need to explain how this is just as artificial as giving them a hard cap.

“nothing is stopping you from carrying many arrows as long as your carry weight and volume can handle”

And i hope i don’t have to explain how “balancing” them to be harder to carry a large amount is completely ineffective when you can just carry a large amount anyway.

esran · 2013-06-25T01:35:00.000Z

i think that regular arrows should way a bit more, and flaming arrows should way a lot less. 40 pounds for 5 arrows? thats actually more than twice the sum of the weight of the ingrediants.

i2amroy · 2013-06-25T04:08:47.000Z

esran:

i think that regular arrows should way a bit more, and flaming arrows should way a lot less. 40 pounds for 5 arrows? thats actually more than twice the sum of the weight of the ingrediants.

It’s actually only 10 pounds. Each “weight” unit is only 1/4 pound (despite what the starting screen says). Still probably a little much, but not as bad as 40 pounds.

esran · 2013-06-25T12:50:07.000Z

in that case regular arrows should actually weigh a lot more, but flamable arrows still need to weigh less. also, i see no reason why they shouldnt take up a little volume. archers already get the advantage of practicly infinite volume do to not giving a damn about torso encumbrance.

ejseto · 2013-06-25T13:05:34.000Z

Heh, for some reason they burn flesh better than paper.

if (z.made_of(“veggy”) || z.made_of(“cotton”) || z.made_of(“wool”) ||
z.made_of(“paper”) || z.made_of(“wood”))
z.add_effect(ME_ONFIRE, rng(6, 6));
else if (z.made_of(“flesh”))
z.add_effect(ME_ONFIRE, rng(10, 10));

You don’t need to use rng() if both numbers are the same btw.

Come to think of it, are there even any monsters made of cotton, wool, or paper?

macrosblackd · 2013-06-25T13:18:40.000Z

Stevenson, I never realized you went back and increased the weight of the arrows. They were reduced for a reason, and that was realism. Arrows do NOT weigh a ton.

Aggrons_shell · 2013-06-25T15:13:57.000Z

woflsipder:

well , having a stupid limit to how much you can have at the same time is ultra stupid , like the inventory limit of 75 items , what’s the point of gathering clothes to get as much volume as possible when you will only ever get to fill 40% of it and no more.

What if the weight is reduced to a reasonable amount, but if not kept in a new item, the quiver, they have a chance of breaking while roughly thrown arround in a backpack. The quiver would require a point in both archery and tailoring, and require like, a sewing kit or a bone needle as a tool, an a piece of 6 in. string, and some rags?

Also, i would think the 75 item limit is how many things there are on the keyboard, but even that could be solved somehow.

Stevensonz · 2013-06-25T17:34:32.000Z

macrosblackd:

Stevenson, I never realized you went back and increased the weight of the arrows. They were reduced for a reason, and that was realism. Arrows do NOT weigh a ton.

I didn’t add those weights Isilwyn’s mod had those heavy arrows so basically every complete arrow was heavy. also only thing I worked on was changing the flaming arrows effect to a new one called IGNITE reduced dmg of both flaming and explosive by 15 because 30 for a frigging arrow with an effect is too high, and then made flaming arrows and exploding arrows not re-usable for balance.

Stevensonz · 2013-06-25T17:51:07.000Z

[quote=“ejseto, post:17, topic:1894”]Heh, for some reason they burn flesh better than paper.

if (z.made_of(“veggy”) || z.made_of(“cotton”) || z.made_of(“wool”) ||
z.made_of(“paper”) || z.made_of(“wood”))
z.add_effect(ME_ONFIRE, rng(6, 6));
else if (z.made_of(“flesh”))
z.add_effect(ME_ONFIRE, rng(10, 10));

You don’t need to use rng() if both numbers are the same btw.

Come to think of it, are there even any monsters made of cotton, wool, or paper?[/quote]

flesh targets doesn’t seem to burn that easily so I gave it a higher range. those veggy monsters seem to die fast before 6 six turns though. It’s basically a copy from incendiary effects, I’m not sure about monsters made of cotton,wool or paper maybe they are planning to those types? or it could also be based on armor being worn by you/npc’s

Ember · 2013-06-25T20:18:23.000Z

[quote=“Bladerock, post:13, topic:1894”]"Increasing of the weight factor for arrows is intentional as a balancing method "

“Simply put we reduced how many arrows you can carry at a time because of the higher weight.”

I hope i don’t need to explain how this is just as artificial as giving them a hard cap.

“nothing is stopping you from carrying many arrows as long as your carry weight and volume can handle”

And i hope i don’t have to explain how “balancing” them to be harder to carry a large amount is completely ineffective when you can just carry a large amount anyway.[/quote]

a hard cap of only carrying an X amount of arrows is a hard cap, the wight limit isn’t a hard cap as you can carry a lot more if have 20 strength compared to 10 strength

Bladerock · 2013-06-25T22:23:01.000Z

Ember:

a hard cap of only carrying an X amount of arrows is a hard cap, the wight limit isn’t a hard cap as you can carry a lot more if have 20 strength compared to 10 strength

It’s more effective in controlling the behaviour without interfering with other aspects of the game. You can base the hard cap on whatever you want, be it strength or intelligence or whatever.
The idea is that the “Let’s make this stupidly heavy and huge so the player can carry less of it” affects things other than the item, leading to further unrealistic situations and side effects.

For example, if you add in the future an item that increases how much weight you can carry, then the item is undoing your balancing, and now you have to either, rebalance the extraweight lifter around the arrows (reducing it’s effectiveness for everyone just because of them, probably making it useless for anything but carrying the extra arrows) or further increase the weight of the arrows to compensate (Which would make it so a player without the extraweight lifter being weaker after the release of it, without guarantee of obtaining it.)

Each arrow is also reducing your capacity to carry unrelated items due to their extra bulk. Nerfing unrelated items by limiting your ability to carry them (And, if you keep going to this solution, you will also change the weight and volume of this other affected item so “you can carry more while holding the arrows!”. Which complicates everything by now making it much easier to carry in bulk by the people who are not using the extra heavy arrows).

The clean solution is to implement a cap that only affects the arrows in a vacuum, that way, their “overpoweredness” is contained without unnecessarily affecting other aspects of the game which are currently considered to be balanced.