# Firearm accuracy

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/firearm-accuracy/14675>\
**Category:** The Garage\
**Created:** [December 10, 2017, 6:24pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/firearm-accuracy/14675 "2017-12-10T18:24:00Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 19\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![DeWolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@DeWolf](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/DeWolf)\
**Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/firearm-accuracy/14675/21 "2017-12-12T20:40:34Z")

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Define second basement.  
Edit:also last time I checked in the loot tables Jsons there is a chance for the laser mods to spawn in the lab vault finals however the chance to finding one is the same as finding a granade.

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**Author:** ![Vastin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/vastin/32/9912_2.png) [@Vastin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Vastin)\
**Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 8:55pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/firearm-accuracy/14675/22 "2017-12-12T20:55:45Z")

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> [@Vehicle Mounted Turrets- Is there a point?](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/vehicle-mounted-turrets-is-there-a-point/14632/26):
>
> Keep searching the armories in Lab Barracks. You might find those Barrett M107A1 antimaterial rifles. They always spawn with a Rifle Scope, Muzzle Brake, and Bipod. They aren’t integrated, so they can be removed at your leisure.

Ah, I think I actually just found one of those last night. I’ll see about dismantling it for goodies.

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**Author:** ![psyxypher](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/psyxypher/32/11778_2.png) [@psyxypher](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/psyxypher)\
**Post date:** [December 12, 2017, 11:38pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/firearm-accuracy/14675/23 "2017-12-12T23:38:55Z")

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Second basement as in “The second floor in the vault” or “the floor after the initial floor of the vault”.

If I’m coming off as a smartass, know that I’m not trying to be, I just don’t know how better to say it…

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**Author:** ![pisskop](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/pisskop/32/1327_2.png) [@pisskop](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/pisskop)\
**Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 1:28pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/firearm-accuracy/14675/24 "2017-12-17T13:28:28Z")

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what’s the link to the mod that reverted the aiming code back to pre trash levels?

and ftr i use shotguns and revolvers almost exclusively ingame. i like rifles, but they are worthless. as are some throwing weapons.

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**Author:** ![Solusphere](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/solusphere/32/66_2.png) [@Solusphere](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Solusphere)\
**Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 12:23am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/firearm-accuracy/14675/25 "2017-12-18T00:23:54Z")

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> [@Vehicle Mounted Turrets- Is there a point?](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/vehicle-mounted-turrets-is-there-a-point/14632/33):
>
> what’s the link to the mod that reverted the aiming code back to pre trash levels?
> 
> and ftr i use shotguns and revolvers almost exclusively ingame. i like rifles, but they are worthless. as are some throwing weapons.

I’ve been using a Sig 552 (which has an integral folding stock) attached to a survivor harness as my primary firearm for years now, and it still holds up very well. The 3 round burst is great for dealing with bio-operators and the like out to around 5-6 tiles, and the 10 shot full auto rips through hulks at close range very quickly. Importantly, it can be reloaded much faster than a shotgun if you need to deal with more than one hulk at a time, and I always keep a couple backup 30-round clips on me at all times. Sure, it would be nice if I could reliably hit distant targets with it, but I definitely wouldn’t call it useless.

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**Author:** ![pisskop](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/pisskop/32/1327_2.png) [@pisskop](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/pisskop)\
**Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 12:55am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/firearm-accuracy/14675/26 "2017-12-18T00:55:21Z")

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i debugged myself up a skill 10 and a m4. with 14 arm encumbrance i consistently missed a manhack 8-12 tiles away. with max aiming time and debug invis.

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**Author:** ![Solusphere](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/solusphere/32/66_2.png) [@Solusphere](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Solusphere)\
**Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 1:07am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/firearm-accuracy/14675/27 "2017-12-18T01:07:52Z")

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Yeah, NO weapons (other than, arguably, certain grenade launchers, which can do damage on a miss) are capable of anything approaching long range combat, which is a massive problem for sniper rifles and the like which have no other viable role. My point was that there are some rifles that excel at mid-to-close range, calling them worthless is hyperbole.

The fact that a grenade launcher, of all things, is the most viable weapon at ranges of 12+ tiles could be considered a problem in it’s own right.

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**Author:** ![Marduk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Marduk](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Marduk)\
**Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 2:23am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/firearm-accuracy/14675/28 "2017-12-18T02:23:22Z")

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Yeah, assault rifles are supposed to be ok at close range combat, among other things. They are ok for it, not so much for the other things. Come on, .308 and other proper rifles have ranges around 50 or 60, which is already limited because of the reality bubble, but what’s the point when hitting something at 20, nevermind 30 tile range is a miracle already, even with a decent skill and .308 rifle? I think we all agree there should be some long range weapon accuracy rebalancing, both for the sake of vehicle turrets and personal weapons.

Also by the way machineguns could use shorter auto bursts, say 4-6, the fact that the player rarely wants to blow 20 or 25 rounds away makes them less useful than they could be, and unless facing a big group target most of the 20+ rounds will get wasted on the scenery anyway thanks to recoil.

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**Author:** ![Zanos](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zanos/32/422_2.png) [@Zanos](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Zanos)\
**Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 3:36am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/firearm-accuracy/14675/29 "2017-12-18T03:36:30Z")

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I think bursts automatically stop if you run out of targets unless you have trigger happy.

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**Author:** ![Marduk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Marduk](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Marduk)\
**Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 5:19am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/firearm-accuracy/14675/30 "2017-12-18T05:19:46Z")

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Not all targets are worth the bullets.  
Also don’t recoil penalties stack during the burst, getting crazy for later shots?

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**Author:** ![Zanos](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zanos/32/422_2.png) [@Zanos](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Zanos)\
**Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/firearm-accuracy/14675/31 "2017-12-18T18:01:59Z")

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I believe your ranged skills delay some of the recoil until the end of the burst.

I agree though, I don’t think machine guns should only have 20 round burst modes. It’s not like you can’t just squeeze off 5 rounds, or even 1, even if the weapon doesn’t have a fire-select.

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**Author:** ![ShadowDragon8685](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@ShadowDragon8685](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/ShadowDragon8685)\
**Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 10:58pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/firearm-accuracy/14675/32 "2017-12-18T22:58:57Z")

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Agreed. This probably ought to be an option for a player with firearms use above a small amount - the ability to control the size of their bursts. And then the Trigger Happy drawback would sometimes cause you to go “fuck it” and rip off a full long burst anyway. To Needful Things!

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 1:40am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/firearm-accuracy/14675/33 "2017-12-19T01:40:42Z")

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The fact that burst fire chooses new targets is a holdover from before the DDA fork started. It has been fitting increasingly poorly as the handling of firearms becomes more nuanced, and particularly after recoil was overhauled it’s practically useless.

I’m planning on removing it in favour of bursts-at-a-single-target. It might make a return as some kind of sweeping extended fire action in the future, but in the short term it’ll just go away.

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**Author:** ![ShadowDragon8685](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@ShadowDragon8685](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/ShadowDragon8685)\
**Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 4:42am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/firearm-accuracy/14675/34 "2017-12-19T04:42:33Z")

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That would be more than reasonable.

And yeah, “sweeping fire” is a thing. This is pure anecdote, but my uncle has told tales of guys with M14s who would hold the thing sideways and let the recoil sweep the rifle. (My uncle was in Vietnam, but not a combat infantryman, so he does not have firsthand experience witnessing this in action.)

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**Author:** ![druidniam](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/druidniam/32/1368_2.png) [@druidniam](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/druidniam)\
**Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 1:22pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/firearm-accuracy/14675/35 "2017-12-20T13:22:54Z")

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Sweeping fire is still a thing used from cover in a pinned position, but is discouraged. These days they prefer you deploy smoke grenades and re-position or hold for reinforcements/evac.

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**Author:** ![Zanos](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zanos/32/422_2.png) [@Zanos](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Zanos)\
**Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 2:33pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/firearm-accuracy/14675/36 "2017-12-20T14:33:10Z")

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I assume you guys are talking about suppressive fire, which is used to force enemy to take cover while your team moves into a more advantageous position. It’s not actually used to shoot people.

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/firearm-accuracy/14675/37 "2017-12-20T20:11:14Z")

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> [@druidniam](#):
>
> Sweeping fire is still a thing used from cover in a pinned position, but is discouraged.

> [@Zanos](#):
>
> I assume you guys are talking about suppressive fire, which is used to force enemy to take cover while your team moves into a more advantageous position. It’s not actually used to shoot people.

This is the case in modern warfare, but if you look at WWII era machine gun doctrine, a major use case was continuous fire at very large groups of enemy combatants. It just so happens that DDA also features very large numbers of enemy combatants, so what is old has become new again.

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**Author:** ![druidniam](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/druidniam/32/1368_2.png) [@druidniam](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/druidniam)\
**Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 9:35pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/firearm-accuracy/14675/38 "2017-12-20T21:35:26Z")

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No sweeping fire was described aboved, abusing recoil to rake a small area. Supressing fire is a precision targetted burst of fire from the fire team or squads DHG at a designated location for any number of tactical reasons.

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [January 19, 2018, 6:39am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/firearm-accuracy/14675/39 "2018-01-19T06:39:53Z")

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Update to [https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/22753](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/22753)  
long rambling dealy about what we can change with ranged weapons.

[Previous page](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/firearm-accuracy/14675.md?page=1)