Field of vision!

[bahihs]

This type of thing is appropriate for an first person game, but I can’t see it adding much value to DDA. Having to turn around manually constantly (because there are no other indicators of enemy presence, no noise, no smell etc.) is just annoying. I tend to think of it as the PC using all of his senses (especially hearing and smell) to determine when he needs to turn around, then doing so for enemies. And using memory of what hes already seen for background objects.

[i2amroy]

IIRC we actually already have mirror support in-game.

How realistic is it that the player is pirouetting every step they take tho? I know dance dance dance is a book you can read but to bust out a twirl every turn seems a bit much?

That’s the exact thing, if the player has a set field of vision then that’s exactly what players are going to do; spin around after every single turn. The advantage granted by having the complete circle of vision is just so great that unless you were extremely pressed for time it would never not be worth it to spin around after each step (and thus require a bunch of extra key presses).

[StopSignal]

An idea for an interface that could be useful!

Well, no one uses the arrows, no? Idk. At least i think no one uses them, or should. They don’t have diagonal movement.
Let’s say that Player Mcnoob is looking at the right.

           @ ---X

Now you put the DOWN key.

            @ -
                    -
                         -
                             X

Player Mcnoob now looks a bit nearer SOUTH (DOWN). If you put it enough times, it will face SOUTH (I think it would require 3 keypresses, one for EES (East East South), another for SE (South East), another for SSE (South South East) and another one for, finally, SOUTH) . If it’s facing SOUTH, and you press DOWN, it would not make anything.
Neither would pressing UP (NORTH), because the game can’t decide for you if it should look EAST or WEST first. You should have to press one of those first.

You like it?

[i2amroy]

Well, no one uses the arrows, no? Idk. At least i think no one uses them, or should. They don’t have diagonal movement.

I do. Being on a laptop without a number pad I generally use the arrow keys and then reach up to hit the 1/3/7/9 keys on the top of the keyboard for diagonal movement (since I find the hjkl stuff to make no sense at all to me due to the way the keys line up).

[Hobocop]

SoTS: The Pit has a field of view mechanic, but there are several other items and mechanics in the game to mitigate blind spots, such as enemies having distinct sound effects so you can identify what’s coming without needing to see them. I feel like you’d also need to have such mechanics lined up to support a limited field of view without it becoming more of a hassle than an interesting gameplay mechanic.

[StopSignal]

[quote=“StopSignal, post:13, topic:6247”]Well, no one uses the arrows, no? Idk. At least i think no one uses them, or should. They don’t have diagonal movement.

I do. Being on a laptop without a number pad I generally use the arrow keys and then reach up to hit the 1/3/7/9 keys on the top of the keyboard for diagonal movement (since I find the hjkl stuff to make no sense at all to me due to the way the keys line up).[/quote]

Oh, i’m sorry then! I am used to have number keypads around in my house because my family uses them a lot, so…

[kevin.granade]

FYI, we have mirrors, though the only place where they make sense currently is rear-view mirrors for vehicles.
And yes, like portals they have to hook into the FOV code, so we have to be careful with them for performance reasons.

Likewise restricted FOV could not be a mod, it would have to be built into the main game.

[Hyena_Grin]

[quote=“vache, post:7, topic:6247”]It could be that a move in any direction aims your field of view in that direction, while any rest or waiting (like pressing 5 or .) causes you to turn and search all directions.

The interesting thing might be trying to create this behavior in monsters, but then you run into the issue of how to convey what direction a monster is facing to the player.[/quote]

This very much seems like something I could live with. Wait actions (or most non-combat actions in which you are not moving to a different tile) giving you full 360 vision would probably make this a lot less of a hassle to deal with. I just like the idea of walking down a road and actually getting snuck up if I don’t pause to check behind me from time to time. You wouldn’t have to reverse directions, just stop for a turn. It’s pretty much how it would work in real life, so I don’t really see the problem.

You could manually look in another direction without changing tiles by using the look button.

I think what I would do is have the full circle (or square) visible for the sake of awareness, but keep everything except your LoS fogged out. So you’d see everything you normally do, except for monsters. Those you need to be actively looking in their direction to see.

I dunno, I can definitely understand why someone wouldn’t want to use this, but it would make for an interesting optional feature or mod, and it doesn’t seem like it’d be that much of a bother.

[Adrian]

The Survivor is like a fucking owl.

Is that a serum yet?

[StopSignal]

[quote=“Hyena Grin, post:18, topic:6247”][quote=“vache, post:7, topic:6247”]It could be that a move in any direction aims your field of view in that direction, while any rest or waiting (like pressing 5 or .) causes you to turn and search all directions.

The interesting thing might be trying to create this behavior in monsters, but then you run into the issue of how to convey what direction a monster is facing to the player.[/quote]

This very much seems like something I could live with. Wait actions (or most non-combat actions in which you are not moving to a different tile) giving you full 360 vision would probably make this a lot less of a hassle to deal with. I just like the idea of walking down a road and actually getting snuck up if I don’t pause to check behind me from time to time. You wouldn’t have to reverse directions, just stop for a turn. It’s pretty much how it would work in real life, so I don’t really see the problem.

You could manually look in another direction without changing tiles by using the look button.

I think what I would do is have the full circle (or square) visible for the sake of awareness, but keep everything except your LoS fogged out. So you’d see everything you normally do, except for monsters. Those you need to be actively looking in their direction to see.

I dunno, I can definitely understand why someone wouldn’t want to use this, but it would make for an interesting optional feature or mod, and it doesn’t seem like it’d be that much of a bother.[/quote]

Exactly this. Really.

It woud also add so much horror in going inside caves and stuff like that…

[vache]

Plus, hearing could be reworked so that you have a good chance to not hear a lot of things you’re not focused on, unless you have the good hearing trait. It would actually give some reason to take that, and give more of a downside to the poor hearing trait.

[kevin.granade]

[quote=“Hyena Grin, post:18, topic:6247”][quote=“vache, post:7, topic:6247”]It could be that a move in any direction aims your field of view in that direction, while any rest or waiting (like pressing 5 or .) causes you to turn and search all directions.

The interesting thing might be trying to create this behavior in monsters, but then you run into the issue of how to convey what direction a monster is facing to the player.[/quote]

This very much seems like something I could live with. Wait actions (or most non-combat actions in which you are not moving to a different tile) giving you full 360 vision would probably make this a lot less of a hassle to deal with. I just like the idea of walking down a road and actually getting snuck up if I don’t pause to check behind me from time to time. You wouldn’t have to reverse directions, just stop for a turn. It’s pretty much how it would work in real life, so I don’t really see the problem.

You could manually look in another direction without changing tiles by using the look button.

I think what I would do is have the full circle (or square) visible for the sake of awareness, but keep everything except your LoS fogged out. So you’d see everything you normally do, except for monsters. Those you need to be actively looking in their direction to see.

I dunno, I can definitely understand why someone wouldn’t want to use this, but it would make for an interesting optional feature or mod, and it doesn’t seem like it’d be that much of a bother.[/quote]
Huh, well there you go, the “wait to look around” thing isn’t a terrible UI, which was my main problem. That’s at least worth giving a try.

[Catfoodbob]

perhaps perception should also factor into your vision range, MUAHAHHAHa you will then really regret making the mistake of using perception as a dump stat when you can’t even see your immediate surroundings without Night-vision in complete darkness… also perhaps let there be a low light vision mutation that amplifies the light level which increses radius of sight based on light… but in complete darkness there is nothing to multiply

[Belteshazzar]

I’d actually considered this before as it adds to certain games like X-Com (which could ‘technically’ be played like a roguelike…) the cone of vision added something, especially in those super tense night-time jungle map abduction missions where you’re the last man conscious against an unknown number of Floaters.

However, I’ll note that these sorts of games usually have more than one character to control and one could both cover one’s corners and make at least one full facing twirl in a single turn (in addition to other actions.)

[StopSignal]

I think someone should give it a try, and then hand out a .zip with the modified game, to see how it would work. If we don’t like it, we will stop bothering with this.

Keeeeeeeeeeviiiiiiinnnnn…

[micko]

Woohoo. Yes the wait to look around would work. As belteshazzar stated with xcom games, the turning around cost 1 tu so you had to manage how much of the map you could see with your players. ( ps. Have you guys seen the awesome remake called xenonauts?) . This lead to some intense moments where you breach a door but run our of turns to fully explore the room. The dark unexplored corners could be hiding a number of aliens. If the room was completely revealed as soon as you walk in it wouldn’t have the same effect.

As for the looking around part, could the mouse be factored into this? I know having to manually turn around with the keys can be a pain in the bum (see ‘unreal world’). A mouse click could direct the players orientation giving a cone of sight in that direction. Movement could be the same with keys and would allow for strafing. This could open up more dynamic combat with the player only being able to attack in front of them until they develop more combat styles that allow for sweeping attacks, flips that may jump them a few squares away and turn their vision around ready for attacks, ‘equilibrium’ style gun fighting etc …

As was also mentioned, using this system for zombies could be factored into the stealth system where the player can see the enemy orientation and sneak around without being seen ( think metal gear solid!). Also, if a player wanted to develop sneaking they could have new abilities that you could leap or roll past a cone of sight to avoid being seen.

[KA101]

[quote=“Belteshazzar, post:24, topic:6247”]I’d actually considered this before as it adds to certain games like X-Com (which could ‘technically’ be played like a roguelike…) the cone of vision added something, especially in those super tense night-time jungle map abduction missions where you’re the last man conscious against an unknown number of Floaters.

However, I’ll note that these sorts of games usually have more than one character to control and one could both cover one’s corners and make at least one full facing twirl in a single turn (in addition to other actions.)[/quote]

Very true, and the Opposition in those games also has vision arcs (and it’s possible to surprise them as much as it’s possible to be surprised by them). Just something to keep in mind.

[vache]

Yeah, but it shouldn’t be hard to port the same thing to creature function from player function. The hard part is showing the player which direction a creature is looking. There could be a DF style multi creature blink, but have it blink between the creature and an indicator, if we had more glyphs available then possibly directional arrow glyphs.

[RAM]

Would this make dismantling a car fatal?

[vache]

Since you’re staying in one spot while dismantling the car, your vision would work the way it currently does.