# Extend first-aid training with dissection

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/extend-first-aid-training-with-dissection/12043>\
**Category:** The Drawing Board\
**Created:** [June 13, 2016, 5:30pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/extend-first-aid-training-with-dissection/12043 "2016-06-13T17:30:03Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 11\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![pingpong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4bbf92/32.png) [@pingpong](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/pingpong)\
**Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 5:30pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/extend-first-aid-training-with-dissection/12043/1 "2016-06-13T17:30:03Z")

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First-aid could be switched to “medicine” or even “biology” and include studying life. If the game let you dissect enemies via applying a “fine cutting” tool, that could be used to train the skill. It could also be another action option when you go to butcher and have a fine-cutting tool (grayed out otherwise). Most non-animal enemies drop multiple things, so [B]utcher+one more key wouldn’t matter in most cases.

With a dissecting mechanic, specific enemy types could increase other skills, like a turret could increase fabrication and critters could affect survival like a normal butchering would.

The trade-off is you wouldn’t get the meat/organs, but maybe it could be used long-term to provide more “enemy specific” or “you shouldn’t get this from butchering” items. Even only rebalancing First-Aid it’d be nice.

All dissections could use the original butchering tool requirements to greatly simplify things. There could be a secondary bonus granted by magnifying glasses or microscope. An “examination” quality which could be used in fine-crafting, and/or be required for dissecting in the first place. A fine cutting tool and examination tool sounds reasonable for studying life. Maybe for even higher levels, the chemistry set is needed.

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**Author:** ![Coolthulhu](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/coolthulhu/32/2446_2.png) [@Coolthulhu](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Coolthulhu)\
**Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 5:45pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/extend-first-aid-training-with-dissection/12043/2 "2016-06-13T17:45:05Z")

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Grinding survival by cutting up corpses is a stretch.

Grinding first aid - ie. the skill of fixing wounds - by cutting up corpses is much more of a stretch.  
And that’s even assuming you’re only performing it on humans - cutting up animals shouldn’t give much of a bonus, cutting up zombies shouldn’t help with first aid the slightest bit.

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**Author:** ![pingpong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4bbf92/32.png) [@pingpong](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/pingpong)\
**Post date:** [June 13, 2016, 10:30pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/extend-first-aid-training-with-dissection/12043/3 "2016-06-13T22:30:35Z")

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[quote=“Coolthulhu, post:2, topic:12043”]Grinding survival by cutting up corpses is a stretch.

Grinding first aid - ie. the skill of fixing wounds - by cutting up corpses is much more of a stretch.  
And that’s even assuming you’re only performing it on humans - cutting up animals shouldn’t give much of a bonus, cutting up zombies shouldn’t help with first aid the slightest bit.[/quote]  
Literally, unless you’re foraging or crafting, the only way to level survival is butchering, and there is no “this task is too simple to train you” message.

Secondly, how do you think people LEARNED medicine during the past 500 years? Even in the 50s we were still cutting up peoples brains to learn things. Lobotomies are still legitimate procedures today. Veterinary Medicine is also a very real thing, and is another reason why “Medicine” is a much better description than “First Aid”. Prozac for gods sake is approved for dogs.

“First Aid” is a terrible name for it, because even “first aid” is about basic medical procedures, not making medicines or performing surgery.

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**Author:** ![Coolthulhu](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/coolthulhu/32/2446_2.png) [@Coolthulhu](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Coolthulhu)\
**Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 8:25am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/extend-first-aid-training-with-dissection/12043/4 "2016-06-14T08:25:46Z")

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> [@pingpong](#):
>
> Secondly, how do you think people LEARNED medicine during the past 500 years?

Mostly by operating on things that are not dead, administering substances to things that are not dead, covering not dead things with bandages, cleaning wounds of not dead things etc.

Cutting up a not-alive, not-human thing won’t help you with administering bandages and disinfectant to living humans.

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**Author:** ![evilexecutive](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/evilexecutive/32/447_2.png) [@evilexecutive](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/evilexecutive)\
**Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 3:16pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/extend-first-aid-training-with-dissection/12043/5 "2016-06-14T15:16:04Z")

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> [@Coolthulhu](#):
>
> [quote=“pingpong, post:3, topic:12043”]Secondly, how do you think people LEARNED medicine during the past 500 years?

Mostly by operating on things that are not dead, administering substances to things that are not dead, covering not dead things with bandages, cleaning wounds of not dead things etc.

Cutting up a not-alive, not-human thing won’t help you with administering bandages and disinfectant to living humans.[/quote]

Except that cutting up a body and performing an Autopsy will improve your knowledge and familiarity with the body in question, far better than any book could teach you. This was precisely why medical students throughout history were taught by cutting up the cadavers of criminals and prostitutes, and taught surgical procedures by performing them on cadavers.

To the surgeon, there’s not much difference in practicing medical procedures on a corpse, to then later apply it to a living body.

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**Author:** ![Coolthulhu](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/coolthulhu/32/2446_2.png) [@Coolthulhu](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Coolthulhu)\
**Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 3:48pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/extend-first-aid-training-with-dissection/12043/6 "2016-06-14T15:48:30Z")

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First aid has barely any relation to actual surgery.  
It’s mostly just cleaning wounds.  
Currently it doesn’t even allow setting bones to help with their healing (except for crafting the splint).

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**Author:** ![jcd](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/jcd/32/338_2.png) [@jcd](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/jcd)\
**Post date:** [June 14, 2016, 9:34pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/extend-first-aid-training-with-dissection/12043/7 "2016-06-14T21:34:43Z")

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Cutting bodies certainly helps to understand the anatomy, but not much else.  
I mean, you ultimately need to undertand how to help the body heal, and this cannot be learned in this way.  
So, taking into account that first aid 1-3 means simple bandaging and wound care, i can’t see corpse cutting being of any help there.  
I’d argue that it could be helpful at higher levels when we are talking about installing cbms and such, but by then the character should already know what he needs to know, regardless of his cutting up zeds.

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**Author:** ![pisskop](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/pisskop/32/1327_2.png) [@pisskop](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/pisskop)\
**Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 1:01am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/extend-first-aid-training-with-dissection/12043/8 "2016-06-15T01:01:58Z")

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Self Installing most cbms is a running joke.

“Let me just rip out my own cornea and powder the bleeding remains with diamonds now…”

or

“let me insert a neural network of electric dampers on mysef into my subdermis now”

there should at least be a doc or mr stem bot or something

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**Author:** ![jcd](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/jcd/32/338_2.png) [@jcd](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/jcd)\
**Post date:** [June 15, 2016, 6:24am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/extend-first-aid-training-with-dissection/12043/9 "2016-06-15T06:24:07Z")

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[quote=“pisskop, post:8, topic:12043”]Self Installing most cbms is a running joke.

“Let me just rip out my own cornea and powder the bleeding remains with diamonds now…”

or

“let me insert a neural network of electric dampers on mysef into my subdermis now”

there should at least be a doc or mr stem bot or something[/quote]  
well, that’s true.  
the only thing that could maybe said in defense of the current system is that cbms are mostly self-installing themselves. But then no skill would be required to install them, right?

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**Author:** ![Arek\_PL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b77776/32.png) [@Arek\_PL](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Arek_PL)\
**Post date:** [June 19, 2016, 10:21am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/extend-first-aid-training-with-dissection/12043/10 "2016-06-19T10:21:11Z")

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even if cbms are self installing it probaly still needs some setup to work properly  
look how is easy to install software and operating system on computer by using setup file but many people still can fail at this  
cbms probaly require some preparation too, adjusting to body, placing in proper place

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**Author:** ![Bumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@Bumpkin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Bumpkin)\
**Post date:** [June 20, 2016, 7:51pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/extend-first-aid-training-with-dissection/12043/11 "2016-06-20T19:51:32Z")

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Even if they were self-installing, they probably aren’t after having self-installed already and then been cut out of a shocker zombie’s guts.