Experimental Features: Zombie slave derail

[kevin.granade]

[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:164, topic:6900”]Ignoring the development angle, if I get enough people together, come to your house, and tell you to do stuff, “because the majority wants it”, do you do it? That doesn’t even start to make any kind of sense, why the hell would I subject myself to that?

Did you give me 9k to remodel my home? Because, if so, yeah.[/quote]
So if I give you some money to hire a contractor to add certain features to your house, then I show up with some people and “vote” that you personally should do unrelated work a certain way, that’s reasonable?

“If you give us money, we’ll use it to hire a dev to work on these features.” That is the Kickstarter in a nutshell, I’m not working for hire, all my contributions are simply my contributions, they have nothing to do with the Kickstarter. A bunch of Galenevil’s contributions are associated with the Kickstarter, when someone claims the code bounties on 3D support, those will be associated with the Kickstarter, nothing else has a thing to do with it.
Even if someone is working on a Kickstarter feature, I would still turn it down if it doesn’t work right, even if “everyone else” wanted it in, because that’s my role in this project.

Let me put this as simply as possible, I don’t work for you.

Also, no not really since I’m not suggesting you grab a dude, “Is this cool? Yeah? Rad,” but noticing, "Hey a lot of people want this or at least passionate enough to argue,

Passion has nothing to do with it, a lot of people are very passionate about things they are totally wrong about. I’m running the project in part because a lot of people acknowledge I have pretty good taste about this stuff. I listen very carefully to input about things, but if I disagree, I disagree. You are literally saying I should take actions that I personally think are wrong because “a lot” of people disagree with me.

Let’s put it in for a while and see what the wider opinion is."

Again, popular vote isn’t any way to make decisions like this, so “stick it in and see” is not a reasonable thing to do. Either it’s a good idea or it isn’t. If I’m not sure if something is a good or bad idea, that might be reasonable, but in the cases we’re talking about, they’re bad ideas, so it’s moot.

[Turtlicious]

That I should do work? No of course not, but if the work you and your people needs my suggestion, I’ll sign off on it since it’s basically you’re money that drew all these people to my home, and I really don’t mind living with whatever small changes since ultimately, I got a shitton of money for a makeover. I’d be grateful.

Because without everyone else putting money and time in, no-one would even give two shits about my home.

I just feel like it’s shitty you basically bullshitted 9k from the community, showed nothing for it, and don’t really show any culpability.

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As for the second bit, what I’m saying is that it’s incredibly arrogant to assume that when a large group of people disagree with you, that there is no possible way you could be wrong. That’s an attitude that’s pretty terrible to have when you tell people you’re a leader.

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When you an open source project like this, and ask for the community to pitch in, popular vote is definitely the way to handle issues like this. You haven’t really given an argument against. My argument is that most people have a general idea of what they want, and you marketed a product for them, took money from them, based on the idea “If you give me money, I’ll give you what you want.”

Is it really that painful to just TRY what the majority wants? Like, I’m not even saying do it for every pull request, but when there seems to be a contentious issue that you disagree with, you should see WHY people want it.

[Yossarian23]

Do you actually think it is the job of leadership to facilitate majority rule? Spoiler alert: It’s not. Leaders are tasked with leadership.

Turtlicious, I get the distinct impression that whenever you post here, somewhere there is a folding table surrounded by Girl Scouts doing macreme(sp?) who are sorely missing the clucking presence of their mother hen/assistant troop leader.

When you venture out into The Real World IRL you will eventually find that frequent acquiescence to passionate mobs is a very undesirable, though all too common, characteristic for leaders to demonstrate.

Turtlicious, please point to your contributions to DDA. Where can I find your content in-game? As far as I can tell, your only contribution to the game thus far has been a sweeping and tangential forum argument in which you consistently stake out the most absurd and ridiculous positions possible. Every minute Kevin spends responding to the deluge of bile, phlegm, and raw sewage which constantly pours from your mouth is another minute where he’s not coding DDA. /tableflip

[kevin.granade]

I had a long and detailed response typed out, but after being ninja’ed by Yossarian23 I’m going to pitch it and go back to working on the project. This has been an utter waste of time, and I apologize for ever dignifying any of Turtalicious’ absurd posts with a response.

[Turtlicious]

[quote=“Yossarian23, post:172, topic:6900”]Do you actually think it is the job of leadership to facilitate majority rule? Spoiler alert: It’s not. Leaders are tasked with leadership.

Turtlicious, I get the distinct impression that whenever you post here, somewhere there is a folding table surrounded by Girl Scouts doing macreme(sp?) who are sorely missing the clucking presence of their mother hen/assistant troop leader.

When you venture out into The Real World IRL you will eventually find that frequent acquiescence to passionate mobs is a very undesirable, though all too common, characteristic for leaders to demonstrate.

Turtlicious, please point to your contributions to DDA. Where can I find your content in-game? As far as I can tell, your only contribution to the game thus far has been a sweeping and tangential forum argument in which you consistently stake out the most absurd and ridiculous positions possible. Every minute Kevin spends responding to the deluge of bile, phlegm, and raw sewage which constantly pours from your mouth is another minute where he’s not coding DDA. /tableflip[/quote]

It’s cool when you insult people for disagreeing with you. I contributed with my cash.

[kilozombie]

Turtlicious, you come across (to me) as malicious. You come across as somebody that would be used for a strawman argument. You also remind me of Driverboy/Lazycat.

Insults off the chest.

The coder we commissioned to work on the Z-lavels etc. buggered off and we didn’t get anything. But we still have a decent amount of money, so ALL of it (iirc) is being used as bounty rewards to complete the Kickstarter goals.

[Turtlicious]

[quote=“kilozombie, post:175, topic:6900”]Turtlicious, you come across (to me) as malicious. You come across as somebody that would be used for a strawman argument. You also remind me of Driverboy/Lazycat.

Insults off the chest.

The coder we commissioned to work on the Z-lavels etc. buggered off and we didn’t get anything. But we still have a decent amount of money, so ALL of it (iirc) is being used as bounty rewards to complete the Kickstarter goals.[/quote]

There is nowhere close to 9k worth of bounties on bounty source. I’m not familiar with the term, “Insults off the chest.” I don’t know who Driverboy/Lazycat is.

https://www.bountysource.com/trackers/146201-cataclysm-dark-days-ahead

I’m not sure why saying, “Hey you should maybe listen to other people sometimes if they really like a feature!” Is malicious.

[Datanazush]

I’m not sure why saying, “Hey you should maybe listen to other people sometimes if they really like a feature!” Is malicious.

Which is what we do, but you seem to be appealing to numbers more often than not. As it stands, I barely see what ideas you’re trying to get changed, and whenever you mention anything related to a majority decision, I don’t see people agreeing with you, or at least, not enough to justify it being the majority. And you talk about people on SA and Facepunch, and those are uncounted, an unnumbered and ineffectual force multiplier you seem to bring out when you say “BUT EVERYONE DISLIKES THIS CHOICE.” Well shit, if they feel so strongly, maybe they should pop on over and let us know.

Also, from one of your prior posts,

My argument is that most people have a general idea of what they want, and you marketed a product for them, took money from them, based on the idea "If you give me money, I’ll give you what you want."

Which is complete and utter bullshit because the idea wasn’t to put in money and you suddenly get executive veto, it was to put in money to assist in development of the game. I admit this went tits up when the dedicated programmer went away, but there was damage control in the form of the bounties.

[kilozombie]

You read wrong. Yes, some money was legitimately expended paying a developer who didn’t do what was expected. So it’s not all there, but all that remains is for bounties.

“insults off the chest” as in I’m taking them off my chest so we can discuss. But it’s clear you don’t want to discuss, you just want somebody to get mad at.

Datan sums this up better. I’m tired.

[vultures]

This ain’t a discussion; it’s about two clingers enjoying the thrashing - and they’re trying to single out Kevin in the terms of “missing a point” of an active project, the CataDDA. Furthermore, they’re trying to twist his attitude towards any upcoming devs, thus piling up more BS on the ill-image they’re trying to invoke on this community. If open-source wasn’t as graceful as it gets, it would be missing the forking opportunity for those enthusiastic devs with more progressive ideas. Instead of discussing the more up-to-date points of their efforts with the community, they’re speculating on the doubts prior to their own assessments when this Cataclysm branch is concerned.

Attempting to install guilt on any of the devs will make them only disapprove of your concepts and ideas.

[i2amroy]

The coder we commissioned to work on the Z-lavels etc. buggered off and we didn’t get anything. But we still have a decent amount of money, so ALL of it (iirc) is being used as bounty rewards to complete the Kickstarter goals.

Small note, but the coder that was hired (GalenEvil) got paid for the work that he did (he was hired on a weekly basis, IIRC). As such he was paid the majority of the money, leaving us with a portion left over after he left. In return he gave us pretty much all the tile set support that currently exists, did something like 90% of the work needed to support the modding and world generation systems, did a fair bit of work on save compatibility, as well as a fair number of other rewrites and fixes. (And a few of his PR’s are still waiting to be completed by anyone who wants to use them as inspiration to finish them and make them compatible with the latest version).

While he didn’t accomplish everything the kickstarted had planned, that’s more from underestimating the difficulty of tasks than it was from a lack of work on GalenEvil’s end.

[Turtlicious]

[quote=“kilozombie, post:175, topic:6900”]The coder we commissioned to work on the Z-lavels etc. buggered off and we didn’t get anything. But we still have a decent amount of money, so ALL of it (iirc) is being used as bounty rewards to complete the Kickstarter goals.

Small note, but the coder that was hired (GalenEvil) got paid for the work that he did (he was hired on a weekly basis, IIRC). As such he was paid the majority of the money, leaving us with a portion left over after he left. In return he gave us pretty much all the tile set support that currently exists, did something like 90% of the work needed to support the modding and world generation systems, did a fair bit of work on save compatibility, as well as a fair number of other rewrites and fixes. (And a few of his PR’s are still waiting to be completed by anyone who wants to use them as inspiration to finish them and make them compatible with the latest version).

While he didn’t accomplish everything the kickstarted had planned, that’s more from underestimating the difficulty of tasks than it was from a lack of work on GalenEvil’s end.[/quote]

I didn’t understand this, and now I feel a bit like an ass. Sorry Kevin.

[kevin.granade]

[quote=“i2amroy, post:180, topic:6900”][quote=“kilozombie, post:175, topic:6900”]The coder we commissioned to work on the Z-lavels etc. buggered off and we didn’t get anything. But we still have a decent amount of money, so ALL of it (iirc) is being used as bounty rewards to complete the Kickstarter goals.

Small note, but the coder that was hired (GalenEvil) got paid for the work that he did (he was hired on a weekly basis, IIRC). As such he was paid the majority of the money, leaving us with a portion left over after he left. In return he gave us pretty much all the tile set support that currently exists, did something like 90% of the work needed to support the modding and world generation systems, did a fair bit of work on save compatibility, as well as a fair number of other rewrites and fixes. (And a few of his PR’s are still waiting to be completed by anyone who wants to use them as inspiration to finish them and make them compatible with the latest version).

While he didn’t accomplish everything the kickstarted had planned, that’s more from underestimating the difficulty of tasks than it was from a lack of work on GalenEvil’s end.[/quote]

I didn’t understand this, and now I feel a bit like an ass. Sorry Kevin.[/quote]
Thanks for that, I really appreciate it.

Misunderstandings happen, and I can understand that if you thought I personally ran off with the money you’d be really pissed.

[Reaper]

You plan do zombie-generator from zombie shocker?

[kevin.granade]

Now that you mention it, I think someone was talking about that months ago.
You wouldn’t actually need to pacify the zombie though, if you made a lightning rod item that could trap lightning and charge batteries with it, you could just stick the shocker in a cage with it, along with something for it to attack on the other side of the lightning rod.

[Reaper]

One another perpetual motion machine…

[vultures]

Yeah, nature’s full of 'em.

[111]

Is this an experimental thing? Or did I actually find Shia LaBeouf?

[FunsizeNinja123]

Sir -, you are the luckiest bastard I have ever seen.

It’s an easter egg. Look up “actual cannibal shia labeauf” and watch a few videos on it.

[Internet_Psycho]

I’m for the “zslaves” I mean I don’t see what the problem would be. Have you ever owned a pet? Congratz you in inadvertently support slavery. Have you eaten a beef hamburger? You ate a slave cow. Its all about perspective. In an apocalypse you have to make big decisions. Sometimes you have to do inhuman things to survive and progress. It’s the same principle that NPC’s live by, survive. Yesterday a survivor walked up to me after I dropped my knife because she had a gun. She steals my shit then guns me down (presumably to steal the rest of my shit). What she did was to survive and she Choose to do an inhuman act to prolong herself from dying. Ask the friendly slavers in fallout 2 why they do what they do, it is survival. And one last point, by controlling a character against there will are you not the same as a slaver? Forcing Joseph to walk into that street filled with zombies for your own amusement.

Either way agree or disagree it is a feature so if you are okay with it do it, if not don’t it is literally that simple. Its like taking the cannibal trait, if its not something you want on your mind then don’t do it.