# Electric vehicles are no-brainers (git b85c4a930b)

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/electric-vehicles-are-no-brainers-git-b85c4a930b/25581>\
**Category:** The Drawing Board\
**Created:** [December 29, 2020, 3:48pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/electric-vehicles-are-no-brainers-git-b85c4a930b/25581 "2020-12-29T15:48:33Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 12\
**Page:** 3

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**Author:** ![GiggleGrassGatherer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/gigglegrassgatherer/32/7743_2.png) [@GiggleGrassGatherer](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/GiggleGrassGatherer)\
**Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 2:14am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/electric-vehicles-are-no-brainers-git-b85c4a930b/25581/41 "2021-01-02T02:14:57Z")

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> [@mlangsdorf](#):
>
> For instance, the energy it takes to fully boil 1 unit (0.25L or 250 g) of water should be:  
> `250 g * ( 80 C * 1 cal / C-g + 540 cal / g ) * 4.184 J / cal * 1 battery / 1000 J` or **649** battery charges.  
> In game, it’s currently like 2 charges.

And that’s if we assume 100% energy efficiency 😀

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**Author:** ![zantanzuken](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zantanzuken/32/10325_2.png) [@zantanzuken](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/zantanzuken)\
**Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 2:54am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/electric-vehicles-are-no-brainers-git-b85c4a930b/25581/42 "2021-01-02T02:54:00Z")

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naw he probably used one of the many formula out there for boiling a pot of water regardless of external forces… scientists like fluids -alot-

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**Author:** ![mlangsdorf](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/mlangsdorf/32/2462_2.png) [@mlangsdorf](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/mlangsdorf)\
**Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 3:10am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/electric-vehicles-are-no-brainers-git-b85c4a930b/25581/43 "2021-01-02T03:10:38Z")

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GiggleGrassGatherer is correct; that was the minimum input energy to convert 0.25L of liquid water at room temperature to a cloud of steam, assuming no thermal losses during the process and 100% efficiency. Admittedly, electric resistance heaters are pretty efficient because it’s easy to run a current through a resistor and produce waste heat, but the key take-away is that CDDA underestimates battery costs for cooking by a factor of 50x to 100x.

This may get fixed soon; it turns out to be a relative small JSON fix, though with large follow-up effects when everyone moves to charcoal smokers and campfires for cooking.

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**Author:** ![Paul\_Blay](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/paul_blay/32/6803_2.png) [@Paul\_Blay](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Paul_Blay)\
**Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 8:11am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/electric-vehicles-are-no-brainers-git-b85c4a930b/25581/44 "2021-01-02T08:11:43Z")

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> [@mlangsdorf](#):
>
> that was the minimum input energy to convert 0.25L of liquid water at room temperature to a cloud of steam, assuming no thermal losses during the process and 100% efficiency.

Although I’m pretty sure that what you actually do when you craft ‘clean water’ is bring it to a boil then simmer for a bit. If you reduce it entirely to vapour then you have nothing left to drink! 😛

That ‘clean water’ is safe from (pre apocalypse) bacteria, parasites and viruses (well, with a few possible exceptions) but is not safe from various toxins and radiation.

If you full-on distil water (boil to vapour and condense) you eliminate many more contaminants but it obviously takes longer and needs more equipment and energy.

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**Author:** ![ThinkSome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@ThinkSome](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/ThinkSome)\
**Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 11:31am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/electric-vehicles-are-no-brainers-git-b85c4a930b/25581/45 "2021-01-02T11:31:14Z")

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Hotplates should be running on \>= medium storage batteries, anyway. They should be more or less for cooking inside an electric vehicle.

Even if this were fixed, I would not move to charcoal or fire. The abundance of EVs in game means that there is an abundance of solar panels, and thus plenty of energy for cooking.

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**Author:** ![mlangsdorf](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/mlangsdorf/32/2462_2.png) [@mlangsdorf](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/mlangsdorf)\
**Post date:** [January 2, 2021, 1:22pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/electric-vehicles-are-no-brainers-git-b85c4a930b/25581/46 "2021-01-02T13:22:11Z")

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Bringing water to a boil and letting it simmer is `250 * 80 * 4.184 / 1000` or about 84 battery charges to bring the water to 100 C, plus sufficient energy to keep it there while simmering. I don’t feel like calculating the energy loss at boiling, but it’s substantial, so call it 100-150 battery charges in total.

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [January 4, 2021, 12:40am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/electric-vehicles-are-no-brainers-git-b85c4a930b/25581/47 "2021-01-04T00:40:20Z")

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11 posts were split to a new topic: [Scale of map and impacts on vehicle efficiency](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/scale-of-map-and-impacts-on-vehicle-efficiency/25623)

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**Author:** ![Len\_B](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/len_b/32/10457_2.png) [@Len\_B](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Len_B)\
**Post date:** [January 6, 2021, 11:37pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/electric-vehicles-are-no-brainers-git-b85c4a930b/25581/48 "2021-01-06T23:37:54Z")

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When I was designing the kitchen in my IRL Tiny Home I seem to remember that an electric stove was no go. 240 ah of 12v batteries, 600 watts of solar panels, charging off the alternator on the tow vehicle and still would run down.

Chemical energy is the way to go IRL, so propane stove, heater and oven.

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**Author:** ![ThinkSome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@ThinkSome](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/ThinkSome)\
**Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 5:59am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/electric-vehicles-are-no-brainers-git-b85c4a930b/25581/49 "2021-01-07T05:59:06Z")

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Sounds about right. Hotplates should be mounted inside a vehicle and really drain the batteries. Renewable cooking at a great price.

I haven’t found any propane/cooking gas containers in houses so far, is this uncommon to find in New England?

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**Author:** ![mlangsdorf](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/mlangsdorf/32/2462_2.png) [@mlangsdorf](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/mlangsdorf)\
**Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 11:38am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/electric-vehicles-are-no-brainers-git-b85c4a930b/25581/50 "2021-01-07T11:38:48Z")

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Generally, in America, if a house has natural gas/propane appliances, the natural gas/propane is supplied from a centralized utility station. You have to be pretty far off the grid to need your own gas tank.

Though that’s not 100% true; stand-alone barbeques are sometimes propaned powered for faster and more controlled cooking, and those usually take stand-alone propane tanks. Someone could add those in a PR.

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**Author:** ![Paul\_Blay](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/paul_blay/32/6803_2.png) [@Paul\_Blay](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Paul_Blay)\
**Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 12:19pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/electric-vehicles-are-no-brainers-git-b85c4a930b/25581/51 "2021-01-07T12:19:01Z")

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The ‘trailer park’ areas would probably be a good place to find propane / butane stoves and tanks, IMO.

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**Author:** ![mmekaru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ebca7d/32.png) [@mmekaru](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/mmekaru)\
**Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 1:15pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/electric-vehicles-are-no-brainers-git-b85c4a930b/25581/52 "2021-01-07T13:15:39Z")

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That would also make trailer parks a bit more interesting as targets for looting; IIRC generally they are either annoyances or dangers for new players, with the concentration of Zs and dogs

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