# Disease messages encourage and require immersion-breaking behavior

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/disease-messages-encourage-and-require-immersion-breaking-behavior/23616>\
**Category:** The Garage\
**Created:** [May 11, 2020, 11:13am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/disease-messages-encourage-and-require-immersion-breaking-behavior/23616 "2020-05-11T11:13:24Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![Valase](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/valase/32/6972_2.png) [@Valase](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Valase)\
**Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 9:33pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/disease-messages-encourage-and-require-immersion-breaking-behavior/23616/21 "2020-05-12T21:33:37Z")

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> [@Valiant](#):
>
> It’s not because autodoc intended to be _only_ the surgeon, it’s because no one added additional functions to it yet.

As I’ve said:

> [@Valase](#):
>
> I’m not sure if that is the case lore wise or if no one took the time and decided to code more things into it yet.

Now, may I ask on a source on that?  
Because all I can find in the code are hints that it is indeed intended as just a mechanical surgeon:

> **Snippets**
>
> > [@Description Autodoc Mk. XI](#):
> >
> > A surgical apparatus used for installation and removal of bionics. It’s only as skilled as its operator.
> 
> > [@Flyer snippet](#):
> >
> > This is an advertisement for a local hospital. You see a clean hospital room with a smiling man lying on the bed. The bed is connected to some medical apparatus with a “Autodoc Mk. X” printed on it. A doctor is seen working with its console, while his assistant is unpacking some high-tech hardware. The caption reads: “Autodoc - helping your loved ones get the safest surgery possible.”
> 
> > [@Description Autodoc Specialist profession/trait](#):
> >
> > You’re trained in proper operation of the Autodoc, an advanced machine used for surgical procedures. Operations involving it will be moderately more likely to succeed.

Welp, I’ve asked the author of it for a source. Perfect 🤦‍♂️ .

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**Author:** ![Profugo\_Barbatus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d26b3c/32.png) [@Profugo\_Barbatus](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Profugo_Barbatus)\
**Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 12:05am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/disease-messages-encourage-and-require-immersion-breaking-behavior/23616/22 "2020-05-13T00:05:05Z")

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Not sure that’s a very good faith argument. I understand your point, but if you expect the lore to refer to a functionality of the machine that literally doesn’t exist and has only (in my knowledge) been recently proposed, then you are going to be waiting for a long while. Even if someone wanted to write in additional function for it in the lore, it’d probably get rejected because “yea but it can’t do that can it, it’ll confuse people”

I think it’d be better to step back and ask why would we not want the functions in the autodoc. As far as I can tell, assuming the intent is to have medical services for diagnosing mystery diseases, it’d be because we want some sort of NPC doctor or player profession doctor involved, or anticipate situations where a machine would have the functionality, but should not be where an autodoc can be found.

Considering I am mostly aware of them being in labs, hospitals, and doctors offices, those are all places I would check for medical help. Unless we want to go through and add another machine ala Mr Stemcell (Dunno why he was merged, but my guess is redundant machine), I’d imagine that it’d be just part of the autodoc functionality. Maybe even some autodocs have it, some don’t. We have a Mk9, why not a Mk10, not like hospitals are ever keen on replacing equipment so long as it works, so both would be around.

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**Author:** ![Valase](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/valase/32/6972_2.png) [@Valase](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Valase)\
**Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 12:58am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/disease-messages-encourage-and-require-immersion-breaking-behavior/23616/23 "2020-05-13T00:58:09Z")

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> [@Profugo\_Barbatus](#):
>
> I understand your point […]

Well, I didn’t actually made a point, all I wanted to know was, if it ever was intended to be more than a surgeon. There were no comments in the code that indicated that (or I just didn’t see them), and just someone saying that it was is not helpful, as anyone can say anything they please.

…unless, of course, if it’s the author. I’ve checked the first commit on it (or at least what I thought what was), and it wasn’t Valiant.  
I only now realized, as I’ve rechecked, that it did not sort by the “Recently committed” I’ve set it to, and setting it properly and checking again shows that Valiant is indeed the author.

So yeah, I’m happy with that answer and stay to what I’ve said first: It would be a great addition to the autodoc.

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**Author:** ![Hdstaskr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f19dbf/32.png) [@Hdstaskr](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Hdstaskr)\
**Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 5:53am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/disease-messages-encourage-and-require-immersion-breaking-behavior/23616/24 "2020-05-13T05:53:16Z")

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Higher levels of first aid should start auto-ID ing symptoms imo, similar to recipies.

This should also be added to first aid books/references that help ID your symptoms. First responder handbook etc for common diseases to Lab notes thar ID the werid scifi diseases, etc.

I think you already ID zombie infections with “filth gets into your wound” messages already.

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**Author:** ![Zhilkin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zhilkin/32/3749_2.png) [@Zhilkin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Zhilkin)\
**Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 8:51am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/disease-messages-encourage-and-require-immersion-breaking-behavior/23616/25 "2020-05-13T08:51:36Z")

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> [@Hdstaskr](#):
>
> Higher levels of first aid should start auto-ID ing symptoms imo, similar to recipies.

No matter how good you are at stopping blood and making splints, you aren’t going to identify diseases without doing blood analysis and whatnot in the lab.

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**Author:** ![GiggleGrassGatherer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/gigglegrassgatherer/32/7743_2.png) [@GiggleGrassGatherer](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/GiggleGrassGatherer)\
**Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 11:47am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/disease-messages-encourage-and-require-immersion-breaking-behavior/23616/26 "2020-05-13T11:47:39Z")

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You are, because each disease has a unique set of symptoms 😛 Now, if some of those diseases had overlapping symptoms, I would agree with your argument.

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**Author:** ![spicyshadow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5e9695/32.png) [@spicyshadow](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/spicyshadow)\
**Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 12:56pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/disease-messages-encourage-and-require-immersion-breaking-behavior/23616/27 "2020-05-13T12:56:28Z")

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Then maybe we could have a compromise with medical books having the ability to give you a (incomplete) discription of diseases and there symtoms depending on what book you are using and your medical skill/character background and the player still having to figure out what is wrong with them. This would simulate nicely that your character might try to diagnose themself if something is wrong but could still misdiagnose themself as the player might do.

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**Author:** ![Zhilkin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zhilkin/32/3749_2.png) [@Zhilkin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Zhilkin)\
**Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 1:55pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/disease-messages-encourage-and-require-immersion-breaking-behavior/23616/28 "2020-05-13T13:55:24Z")

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Human body reacts to various diseases with non-unique reactions and most of the times humans perceive these reactions just as “pain/feeling/sensation in X”.

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**Author:** ![GiggleGrassGatherer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/gigglegrassgatherer/32/7743_2.png) [@GiggleGrassGatherer](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/GiggleGrassGatherer)\
**Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 4:13pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/disease-messages-encourage-and-require-immersion-breaking-behavior/23616/29 "2020-05-13T16:13:04Z")

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Too bad it doesn’t work like that in-game, unless I’m missing something.

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**Author:** ![Zhilkin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zhilkin/32/3749_2.png) [@Zhilkin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Zhilkin)\
**Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 4:30pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/disease-messages-encourage-and-require-immersion-breaking-behavior/23616/30 "2020-05-13T16:30:07Z")

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It works exactly like that - disease effects give messages about various sensations.

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**Author:** ![GiggleGrassGatherer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/gigglegrassgatherer/32/7743_2.png) [@GiggleGrassGatherer](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/GiggleGrassGatherer)\
**Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 4:32pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/disease-messages-encourage-and-require-immersion-breaking-behavior/23616/31 "2020-05-13T16:32:50Z")

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Do they or do they not each have their own, unique, messages?

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**Author:** ![Sanehatter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c57346/32.png) [@Sanehatter](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Sanehatter)\
**Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 4:36pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/disease-messages-encourage-and-require-immersion-breaking-behavior/23616/32 "2020-05-13T16:36:31Z")

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Its not that the messages themselves break immersion (cuz they dont), but the natural response from most players when seeing obscure messages in a game is to look up their meaning online, which causes the immersion break.  
Agree that medical skill should allow a PC to self diagnose, with a difficulty related to how well known the disease is.

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**Author:** ![Zhilkin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zhilkin/32/3749_2.png) [@Zhilkin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Zhilkin)\
**Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 4:39pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/disease-messages-encourage-and-require-immersion-breaking-behavior/23616/33 "2020-05-13T16:39:35Z")

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You can check messages in `player_hardcoded_effects.cpp`.

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**Author:** ![Mantar](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/mantar/32/42_2.png) [@Mantar](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Mantar)\
**Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 5:14pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/disease-messages-encourage-and-require-immersion-breaking-behavior/23616/34 "2020-05-13T17:14:45Z")

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> [@Sanehatter](#):
>
> but the natural response from most players when seeing obscure messages in a game is to look up their meaning online, which causes the immersion break.

That’s like cheating, though. It’s a single player game, you can do it if you want, but if doing it bothers you in some way, then how about you just don’t do that?

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**Author:** ![Sanehatter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c57346/32.png) [@Sanehatter](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Sanehatter)\
**Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 5:18pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/disease-messages-encourage-and-require-immersion-breaking-behavior/23616/35 "2020-05-13T17:18:25Z")

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I never said I do it, nor that doing it bothers me.

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**Author:** ![Hdstaskr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f19dbf/32.png) [@Hdstaskr](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Hdstaskr)\
**Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 6:37pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/disease-messages-encourage-and-require-immersion-breaking-behavior/23616/36 "2020-05-13T18:37:56Z")

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> [@Zhilkin](#):
>
> No matter how good you are at stopping blood and making splints, you aren’t going to identify diseases without doing blood analysis and whatnot in the lab.

Diagnose by symptoms? “AutoID” doesn’t mean 100% correct, it means you can ID stuff.

How can you forget how colds work. Then you can’t stop arterial bleeding because you can’t tell high pressure spurts of blood is a larger problem than just bleeding.

You don’t get a blood test every time you see a doctor lol.

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**Author:** ![Zhilkin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zhilkin/32/3749_2.png) [@Zhilkin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Zhilkin)\
**Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 6:40pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/disease-messages-encourage-and-require-immersion-breaking-behavior/23616/37 "2020-05-13T18:40:39Z")

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Making splints does not magically give you medical knowledge.

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**Author:** ![Hdstaskr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f19dbf/32.png) [@Hdstaskr](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Hdstaskr)\
**Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 6:45pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/disease-messages-encourage-and-require-immersion-breaking-behavior/23616/38 "2020-05-13T18:45:28Z")

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How do you splint your bones straight without medical knowledge?

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**Author:** ![Zhilkin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zhilkin/32/3749_2.png) [@Zhilkin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Zhilkin)\
**Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 6:47pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/disease-messages-encourage-and-require-immersion-breaking-behavior/23616/39 "2020-05-13T18:47:44Z")

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I am not sure why did you reverse the question.

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**Author:** ![Sanehatter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c57346/32.png) [@Sanehatter](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Sanehatter)\
**Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 7:55pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/disease-messages-encourage-and-require-immersion-breaking-behavior/23616/40 "2020-05-13T19:55:28Z")

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But thats a matter of how skill progression currently works, not of whether disease diagnosis is feasible for a survivor

[Previous page](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/disease-messages-encourage-and-require-immersion-breaking-behavior/23616.md?page=1)