# \[Discussion Thread\] Thoughts on the C:DDA Design Outline

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/discussion-thread-thoughts-on-the-c-dda-design-outline/5277>\
**Category:** The Drawing Board\
**Created:** [March 3, 2014, 6:00am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/discussion-thread-thoughts-on-the-c-dda-design-outline/5277 "2014-03-03T06:00:26Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 4

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Stretop](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/stretop/32/9864_2.png) [@Stretop](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Stretop)\
**Post date:** [January 11, 2015, 2:23pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/discussion-thread-thoughts-on-the-c-dda-design-outline/5277/61 "2015-01-11T14:23:21Z")

</div>

> [@i2amroy](#):
>
> Laboratories were one of the places with the highest portal densities.

True, but not all labs were portal facilities. And many of portal facilities were nuked. And judging by still present and undisturbed security systems many labs had no guests from sub-prime whatsoever. There was labs for human augmentation (the ones with “rare bionics” finale), engineering labs (with quantum solar panels and fussion rifles) and so on.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![RAM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9bd4f/32.png) [@RAM](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/RAM)\
**Post date:** [January 11, 2015, 8:54pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/discussion-thread-thoughts-on-the-c-dda-design-outline/5277/62 "2015-01-11T20:54:10Z")

</div>

Well if this thread is being necroed, lets make it a full resurrection!

How aggressive do we want the cataclysms to be, and should there be any clear winners in any circumstances? Should every world be pretty much doomed to eventually be completely blanketed with invaders and two nests will spawn in the time it takes to clear one? with the survivor desperately trying to fortify their tiny little greenhouse against spore-drifts and trifid explosions? Unless they manage to build a small army of bionic super-soldiers capable of wrestling with hulks and digging directly into ant nests with their bare hands and immolating the contents with more ordinance than a tank…

Maybe blobs always spread into ant territory, trifids and ants randomly become subservient to one or the other in a mockery of symbiosis, fungus spreads against anything but is never concentrated enough to push too close to a nest itself, trifids destroy blobs…

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Stretop](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/stretop/32/9864_2.png) [@Stretop](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Stretop)\
**Post date:** [January 11, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/discussion-thread-thoughts-on-the-c-dda-design-outline/5277/63 "2015-01-11T21:11:09Z")

</div>

There is also a question about where would all factions get new recruits (considering high level of casualities in the Cataclysm Zone)? Well it is more or less clear with Old Guard which can get support from outside CZ (I offer to call the cordoned region of New England were survivor act CZ - Cataclysm Zone), and as infighting in CZ intensifies - Blob would have plenty of material, but what about Shaolin, Cultists and all others?

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Rivet](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/rivet/32/11_2.png) [@Rivet](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Rivet)\
**Post date:** [January 11, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/discussion-thread-thoughts-on-the-c-dda-design-outline/5277/64 "2015-01-11T21:15:48Z")

</div>

> [@Stretop](#):
>
> the cordoned region of New England were survivor act CZ - Cataclysm Zone

The Cataclysm wasn’t limited to New England; the whole world has been affected, and there are no more safe places.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Stretop](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/stretop/32/9864_2.png) [@Stretop](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Stretop)\
**Post date:** [January 11, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/discussion-thread-thoughts-on-the-c-dda-design-outline/5277/65 "2015-01-11T21:28:41Z")

</div>

> [@Rivet](#):
>
> The Cataclysm wasn’t limited to New England; the whole world has been affected, and there are no more safe places.

True, but New England had the worst of it: it housed more portal-researching facilities that any other territory.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [January 11, 2015, 9:52pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/discussion-thread-thoughts-on-the-c-dda-design-outline/5277/66 "2015-01-11T21:52:12Z")

</div>

Really? where’s that stated? My reading is that New England isn’t particularly special, it’s just where you are.  
If we implemented very long-range (in terms of geography) changes, it would vary the climate and possibly vary the mixture of the cataclysmic events, but not the severity.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Stretop](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/stretop/32/9864_2.png) [@Stretop](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Stretop)\
**Post date:** [January 11, 2015, 9:56pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/discussion-thread-thoughts-on-the-c-dda-design-outline/5277/67 "2015-01-11T21:56:09Z")

</div>

[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:66, topic:5277”]Really? where’s that stated? My reading is that New England isn’t particularly special, it’s just where you are.  
If we implemented very long-range (in terms of geography) changes, it would vary the climate and possibly vary the mixture of the cataclysmic events, but not the severity.[/quote]

Well maybe it was about original Cataclysm. Anyway, that actually makes my question even more important. Where all those faction-people are going to come from?

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Lorknis](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/lorknis/32/144_2.png) [@Lorknis](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Lorknis)\
**Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 3:34pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/discussion-thread-thoughts-on-the-c-dda-design-outline/5277/68 "2015-01-13T15:34:32Z")

</div>

[quote=“Stretop, post:67, topic:5277”][quote=“Kevin Granade, post:66, topic:5277”]Really? where’s that stated? My reading is that New England isn’t particularly special, it’s just where you are.  
If we implemented very long-range (in terms of geography) changes, it would vary the climate and possibly vary the mixture of the cataclysmic events, but not the severity.[/quote]

Well maybe it was about original Cataclysm. Anyway, that actually makes my question even more important. Where all those faction-people are going to come from?[/quote]  
Out of state maybe or from those special towns with a crater in the middle of them where vaults are.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![RAM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9bd4f/32.png) [@RAM](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/RAM)\
**Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 7:36pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/discussion-thread-thoughts-on-the-c-dda-design-outline/5277/69 "2015-01-13T19:36:00Z")

</div>

How self-sufficient should survivors be? Should camping out in the woods with a small farm and not a care in the world be a viable objective?

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Stretop](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/stretop/32/9864_2.png) [@Stretop](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Stretop)\
**Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 9:58pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/discussion-thread-thoughts-on-the-c-dda-design-outline/5277/70 "2015-01-13T21:58:41Z")

</div>

> [@Lorknis](#):
>
> Out of state maybe

If 99% of humanity is dead everywhere - not very likely.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![KA101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/278dde/32.png) [@KA101](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/KA101)\
**Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 2:12am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/discussion-thread-thoughts-on-the-c-dda-design-outline/5277/71 "2015-01-14T02:12:04Z")

</div>

> [@Stretop](#):
>
> [quote=“Lorknis, post:68, topic:5277”]Out of state maybe

If 99% of humanity is dead everywhere - not very likely.[/quote]

As of game start, there are probably (at least) some [17,695 living humans throughout the New England region](http://smf.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?topic=4161.msg166793#msg166793). Given time and communication, 10-100 member factions are entirely reasonable.

And camping in the woods is currently pretty reasonable: there’s a profession specifically designed to do that, if you pick the “out in the woods” start.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Stretop](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/stretop/32/9864_2.png) [@Stretop](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Stretop)\
**Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 2:19pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/discussion-thread-thoughts-on-the-c-dda-design-outline/5277/72 "2015-01-14T14:19:01Z")

</div>

[quote=“KA101, post:71, topic:5277”]As of game start, there are probably (at least) some [17,695 living humans throughout the New England region](http://smf.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?topic=4161.msg166793#msg166793). Given time and communication, 10-100 member factions are entirely reasonable.

And camping in the woods is currently pretty reasonable: there’s a profession specifically designed to do that, if you pick the “out in the woods” start.[/quote]

But how about estimates for mortality rates in post-Cataclysm world? Wouldn’t most of those 17,695 humans die out in the following 2-3 years? Also, how many of those 17,695 are actually able humans? As far as I understand your calculations - many of them are elderly (we should also factor in common tendency for modern human populations towards increasing of average age), many of them are physically or psychically unfit (and some are reliant upon complex medications and will quickly die without it). And some of them are even underaged children.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![iceball3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c89c15/32.png) [@iceball3](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/iceball3)\
**Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 4:25pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/discussion-thread-thoughts-on-the-c-dda-design-outline/5277/73 "2015-01-14T16:25:02Z")

</div>

[quote=“Stretop, post:72, topic:5277”][quote=“KA101, post:71, topic:5277”]As of game start, there are probably (at least) some [17,695 living humans throughout the New England region](http://smf.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?topic=4161.msg166793#msg166793). Given time and communication, 10-100 member factions are entirely reasonable.

And camping in the woods is currently pretty reasonable: there’s a profession specifically designed to do that, if you pick the “out in the woods” start.[/quote]

But how about estimates for mortality rates in post-Cataclysm world? Wouldn’t most of those 17,695 humans die out in the following 2-3 years? Also, how many of those 17,695 are actually able humans? As far as I understand your calculations - many of them are elderly (we should also factor in common tendency for modern human populations towards increasing of average age), many of them are physically or psychically unfit (and some are reliant upon complex medications and will quickly die without it). And some of them are even underaged children.[/quote]Those survivors aren’t chosen randomly. Only the ones lucky or adept or coordinated enough will be part of that surviving population to begin with. The frail, disorganized, and unlucky folks are already zombies.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Stretop](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/stretop/32/9864_2.png) [@Stretop](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Stretop)\
**Post date:** [January 14, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/discussion-thread-thoughts-on-the-c-dda-design-outline/5277/74 "2015-01-14T16:44:23Z")

</div>

> [@iceball3](#):
>
> Those survivors aren’t chosen randomly. Only the ones lucky or adept or coordinated enough will be part of that surviving population to begin with. The frail, disorganized, and unlucky folks are already zombies.

Good point. But that depends on how exactly that 1% survived. If they survived in evac-shelters - there would be plenty of “the frail, disorganized, and unlucky folks” - they simply must be close enough to that shelter at the starting moment of the Cataclysm.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![KA101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/278dde/32.png) [@KA101](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/KA101)\
**Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 12:06am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/discussion-thread-thoughts-on-the-c-dda-design-outline/5277/75 "2015-01-15T00:06:23Z")

</div>

I didn’t much bother with precision and checking on who would be most likely to survive, because enough demographics can change between 2010 and 2042/8 that it might well not matter. The point was to demonstrate that significant amounts of NPCs would live to game start and therefore _could_ live to encounter the PC, not that any particular one would.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Stretop](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/stretop/32/9864_2.png) [@Stretop](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Stretop)\
**Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 7:59pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/discussion-thread-thoughts-on-the-c-dda-design-outline/5277/76 "2015-01-15T19:59:31Z")

</div>

Okay then. Can a list of currently planned factions and their agendas be added to design document?

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![skavenswarm](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/skavenswarm/32/424_2.png) [@skavenswarm](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/skavenswarm)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/discussion-thread-thoughts-on-the-c-dda-design-outline/5277/77 "2015-01-29T14:47:02Z")

</div>

Could you make animals like coyotes eat none infected corpses please.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2015, 4:54pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/discussion-thread-thoughts-on-the-c-dda-design-outline/5277/78 "2015-01-29T16:54:01Z")

</div>

This isn’t a feature suggestion thread.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Derpular](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Derpular](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Derpular)\
**Post date:** [March 18, 2015, 2:29pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/discussion-thread-thoughts-on-the-c-dda-design-outline/5277/79 "2015-03-18T14:29:49Z")

</div>

Just one thought: near the bottom of page 6, change

> is xemself

to

> are themselves

This isn’t the mid-nineties, we don’t need to prove how edgy we are by inventing new gender-neutral pronouns that sound like we’re gargling Lovecraftian summoning rituals. “They” has served just fine for this purpose since the middle ages.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![John\_Candlebury](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/john_candlebury/32/6437_2.png) [@John\_Candlebury](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/John_Candlebury)\
**Post date:** [March 25, 2015, 6:41pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/discussion-thread-thoughts-on-the-c-dda-design-outline/5277/80 "2015-03-25T18:41:53Z")

</div>

In general I would support the use of “they” or null subjects over “xe”, both in the wiki and in documentation.

Just seems more adequate.

[Previous page](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/discussion-thread-thoughts-on-the-c-dda-design-outline/5277.md?page=3)

[Next page](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/discussion-thread-thoughts-on-the-c-dda-design-outline/5277.md?page=5)