# Crafting engines from scratch (tl;dr, no)

**URL:** https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/crafting-engines-from-scratch-tl-dr-no/14678
**Category:** The Drawing Board
**Created:** [December 6, 2017, 4:18am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/crafting-engines-from-scratch-tl-dr-no/14678 "2017-12-06T04:18:21Z")
**Posts on this page:** 1
**Showing post:** 12

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### Author: ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)
#### Post date: [December 19, 2017, 1:25am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/crafting-engines-from-scratch-tl-dr-no/14678/12 "2017-12-19T01:25:16Z")

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> [@Grinding your Mechanics past 10](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/grinding-your-mechanics-past-10/14578/9):
>
> About a half mile of 38 guage insulated magnet wire in the modern Tesla S motor if I remember.

And you’re getting that half-mile (a continuous half-mile, or remotely manageable sections? That makes a pretty big difference) of wire from where? You’re not pulling it out of walls, you’re not pulling it out of electronics, it’s not even reasonable to harvest from an existing motor assembly. Again, we’re back to a modern supply chain supplying just the right product to make the solution work as well as it does.  
Then you have things like this: [Charged EVs | Elon Musk: Cooling, not power-to-weight ratio, is the challenge with AC induction motors - Charged EVs](https://chargedevs.com/newswire/elon-musk-cooling-not-power-to-weight-ratio-is-the-challenge-with-ac-induction-motors/)  
Amazingly it’s not as simple as wrapping sufficient wire around an axle, so I stand by my statement that:

> [@Grinding your Mechanics past 10](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/grinding-your-mechanics-past-10/14578/7):
>
> you’re going to limit your current and efficiency

> [@Grinding your Mechanics past 10](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/grinding-your-mechanics-past-10/14578/11):
>
> I think by the time you have Mechanics and Fabrication up near 10, the only real problem is “I don’t have a machine shop” - CNC tools, metal lathes, etc.

Your limitation is going to be much more around:

1. Supply stock. Even if you can find various stock lying around, you can pretty much _never_ count on having just the right part or feedstock for your processes. There’s a lot you can do with standard stock and just over-engineering everything, but neither of those helps if you want to make a custom engine block. For that you either need an ungodly sized block of metal to mill out, or dive into large-scale casting on top of all the other processes you need to be an expert in. This contributes to the next problem…
2. Time investment. While you can come up with a scrappy solution to every individual problem involved in the engine-making process, netting you _an_ engine if not a _great_ engine, the sum of these problems is pretty overwhelming. This requires innumerable diversions from the central task of making an engine to build tools, secure parts, make designs, test designs, discard designs, find workarounds, etc… Rendering the sum total of time required to create even a single usable truck engine to be truly astronomical.
3. Scavenging vs Crafting. Why the _hell_ would someone expend this ludicrous amount of effort to build an engine from scratch when there are literally _millions_ of working engines scattered all over the countryside? It’s an utterly nonsensical thing to do, and that robs of it of any potential value it might have had.
4. Game engine support. As outlined above, creating an engine “from scratch” requires a massive amount of operations, materials, knowledge, etc… and there is little to no payoff to adding all the content and code necessary to handle it.
5. Game direction. Fundamentally this isn’t a game about crafting and rebuilding. It’s a game about scavenging and surviving. Most crafting-oriented games work by applying a ludicrous amount of simplification to the processes they are representing, consistently hand-waving away any and all obstacles to stitching together their crafting trees. I’m not interested in doing that, and a direct result is that when items requiring extensive tooling and intermediate parts come up, I’m not interested in treating them as anything other than a black box that can be shifted around.

> [@Grinding your Mechanics past 10](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/grinding-your-mechanics-past-10/14578/13):
>
> There are auto parts stores ALL over in the US. Lots of tools sitting on shelves. That’s not even the garages that actually fix engines, have actual lifts.

> [@Grinding your Mechanics past 10](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/grinding-your-mechanics-past-10/14578/7):
>
> I can certainly see rebuilding an engine, and especially stripping parts from other similar engines

> [@Grinding your Mechanics past 10](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/grinding-your-mechanics-past-10/14578/13):
>
> If you don’t have the stock you melt down what you need, use clay for the first few molds.

> [@Grinding your Mechanics past 10](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/grinding-your-mechanics-past-10/14578/15):
>
> The model T engine block was sand cast

That’s a truly massive oversimplification. Yes you can in principle sand-cast a blank to mill out into an engine block, but now you’re talking about getting into large-scale casting (and probably some amount of smelting, otherwise where are you getting your alloys with beneficial properties for engine-building?).

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