Coming and Going thread - Say hi, say bye. For new people, hiatuses, departures


#401

It was not “just small”, and it’s not going away. We already had a discussion about it, and a second chance, and another discussion etc as mentioned where Random_dragon quoted me.

There has been a consistent pattern of Random_dragon criticizing everything in sight, even when there was no problem, and frequently in areas of github or the forums where it was completely unrelated to the topic at hand. He gets angry and combative when he’s given feedback, and has called me a liar on multiple occasions. Contributor-wise he has consistently overreached what he can get working, relies on the other contributors to fix his problems, and refuses to check his own work as needed, with the end result of getting other contributors to do a large part of the work for features he wants, which wastes everyone’s time.

In short, he’s a consistent source of drama, negativity, and needless work; and I came to the conclusion that he wasn’t going to change his behavior (this has been ongoing for months), so I decided I can’t work with him, at first by not engaging in discussion with him (because he’d turn everything into an argument, call me a liar, etc), and later by telling him he is no longer welcome to contribute to the project.

I don’t think any of this is malicious, which is what has made it drag out so far, but that doesn’t change the fact that I can’t work with him.


#402

See https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/15203 and https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/15182 for additional context. That was, essentially, the final straw.


#403

Random, as much as it is possible to have friends on the internet, you were one. I don’t think you were being hostile at all. See you on the other side, buddy.


#404

Right. Will still be on the DF forums at least. And Utterly Mad.


#405

Keep being awesome, random. You were like a happiness beacon around there. Have fun in the df forums! Good luck.


#406

My reaction reading this:

It was not "just small", and it's not going away. We already had a discussion about it, and a second chance, and another discussion etc as mentioned where Random_dragon quoted me.

There has been a consistent pattern of ___ criticizing everything in sight, even when there was no problem, and frequently in areas of github or the forums where it was completely unrelated to the topic at hand.

OH crap. Im next!

He gets angry and combative when he's given feedback, and has called me a liar on multiple occasions. Contributor-wise he has consistently overreached what he can get working, relies on the other contributors to fix his problems, and refuses to check his own work as needed, with the end result of getting other contributors to do a large part of the work for features he wants, which wastes everyone's time.

WTF random… You should totally be a better person than that… WTF.

In short, he's a consistent source of drama, negativity, and needless work; and I came to the conclusion that he wasn't going to change his behavior (this has been ongoing for months), so I decided I can't work with him, at first by not engaging in discussion with him (because he'd turn everything into an argument, call me a liar, etc), and later by telling him he is no longer welcome to contribute to the project.
:( .... dragon man.... you gatta work on that. That is no way to go through life.
I don't think any of this is malicious, which is what has made it drag out so far, but that doesn't change the fact that I can't work with him.
well at least dragons still good people. Later dragon man. May you find greener pastures. Never stop working on bettering yourself and the world around you.

#407

To be honest, I don’t know why I’m bothering to do this. But I’m going to point out some additional context, regarding the fact that this has been going on for months.

[quote=“Kevin Granade”]I’m not going to sugar-coat it, you’ve really been getting on my nerves recently, and I’ve been unnecessarily harsh in response.

The below is me trying to clear the air, not attack you. These are things you’ve done that bother me, but in the second case you aren’t actually doing anything wrong.

The main thing was the multiple postings about the farm tools PR, I had put something like 8 hours into fixing someone else’s PR because they weren’t up to doing it right, I make one mistake, and you jumped all over me about it. That wasn’t the first time though, it doesn’t matter if you’re critical or poke fun at yourself, what you say to or especially about other people is all that anyone is going to notice.
Also you have a habit of championing suggestions that you don’t seem to have thought through very much, posting PRs for things with the only rationale being “someone asked for this”, or in the case of the “psycopath” thing, supporting an issue that literally had no stated rationale in support of it, just an opinion.

With that aired, I’d like to also say that I really appreciate most of what you’re doing. You’re helpful to people on the forums, I really like your tank mod and a lot of the survival stuff you’re doing, integrating Blazemod stuff, and many other things. I really hope you stick around, and for my part I’ll try and clear up my case of “sandy britches” I seem to have picked up.[/quote]

This is roughly the earliest point at which things started falling apart.


#408

:frowning: I take it you won’t even be able to maintain your tank mod now then?


#409

If a few typo fixes are responded to with a forced closure, then a discussion lock due to being unwilling to respond civilly to three different people questioning this action, what sort of answer to that question were you expecting?


#410

One that might be seen in a care-bear movie, or similar situation. Namely, “this would never work in the real world because PEOPLE, but were going to just suddenly have everything be okie dokie now. All hard feelings have veporized in the face of loving_friendship and the betterment of the world internet this site.” Kind of thing. I take it reality strikes again then?


#411

Sooooo … just wanted to say a BIG THANK YOU for the great work that the contributors have put into this game.

I’m a new player, basically just started a few weeks back and this game has blown my mind, the sheer depth of it and it’s so damn fun. Ah and in a few weeks I just barely scratched the surface … This is amazing, only a few games have ever made dying so much fun!

By the way, I noticed the support link on the main page is not working, digging around I did see that there is a donating to contributors thread in one of the forums, seems only a few entries there though and rather difficult to pin point just a person considering this scope. Is there any way to donate to the overall project for the people that want to give something back and help out?


#412

[quote=“Aqma, post:411, topic:4612”]Sooooo … just wanted to say a BIG THANK YOU for the great work that the contributors have put into this game.

I’m a new player, basically just started a few weeks back and this game has blown my mind, the sheer depth of it and it’s so damn fun. Ah and in a few weeks I just barely scratched the surface … This is amazing, only a few games have ever made dying so much fun!

By the way, I noticed the support link on the main page is not working, digging around I did see that there is a donating to contributors thread in one of the forums, seems only a few entries there though and rather difficult to pin point just a person considering this scope. Is there any way to donate to the overall project for the people that want to give something back and help out?[/quote]
Right now I think the only way to “donate” is to put a bounty on a feature you want in the game on github. This is due to Kevin and possibly some of the others having a “no outside income for coding” in their work contract. As such everything they do is freely done, despite each of them successfully pulling of the work of 10 meth-ed up monkeys keyboard mashing to write Shakespeare. Or perhaps I should say, turning that keyboard mashing INTO Shakespear.

Anyways, the lead guys (and girls) do this freely on the side, and moderate these forums. CDDA is free-sourced crowd-sourced game of awesomeness that shows as a glaring example of how the real world should probably work somehow. Not sure how that would work. But the community is great, and any obnoxious, harmful people are quickly turned away.

There really is a lot of lore going on behind the scenes, but the game leaves it up to you to find through NPC’s and flyers/newspapers and other random paper trash throughout the world among other things.

If you really want to get involved write up some code, or json a new thing you think the game needs. Then submit it to someone and if Kevin and co. think it fits well enough it’ll get mainlined. Alternatively you can make your own mod with lots of additions and get that mainlined, or just let others turn it on/off at will.

If you ever need help, check out the tips & tricks thread. Most times of the day you will probably have to wait a maximum of 1 hour. Same goes for most of the forum really.


#413

There’s a (short, only two people) list of contributors with donation methods here: http://smf.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?topic=11783.0 or as Litpunk mentions you can open a bounty on bountysource.
I’m personally not interested in accepting donations right now, and I’m not taking donations on behalf of the project because we don’t have anything to spend it on. If you’re a contributor and want to put your donation info out, PM me and I’ll put it in the above thread along with a blurb about what you’ve contributed.


#414

Thank you both, I appreciate the candid answer and also the Shakespeare reference :)))))
I’ll look further and try to see if there’s anything I can give back in the future for this lovely game.


#415

I’ve lurked for a while, and I have this to say: Holy shit. This forum is an unstable cess pool. Kevin banned one of the devs that did a lot of really good stuff, and yet you banned him from contributing. Great job, I hope you and your lackeys ruin this game further. I have two tips: 1. Make a god dammed end game and 2. Get off of your high horse. Now I’m going to go and never look back.


#416

XD What!!! Did ^ that guy even bother to read what was ACTUALLY going on? Holy shit. Random regrets getting pushed out the door, but he definitely seemed to understand the decision. I mean, is there something that I missed? Or is single post tim not understanding ANYTHING about ANYTHING… I am almost worried I have completely misunderstood everything that ever happened on this forum/game when that kind of venom just comes out of nowhere… It will kind of suck not having random deving anymore though.


#417

If he’s been lurking long enough to see the great slur schism, I can see where he’s coming from. These kind of incidents really stand out when it comes to giving people an overall feel for this community, and while “unstable cesspool” is an uncharitable viewpoint, it’s certainly not an unwarranted one.


#418

eh… I mean I know, and have seen some of what it is based on. But that is hardly what the community is ABOUT. Any creative community working together to make something is GOING to have disagreements, hell any group brought together for long enough is bound to, but cesspool is a bit strong. Personally I would consider it a fairly well maintained and regulated community. Obviously that is going to result in SOME problems, though all in all, it negates more than it creates by doing it the way it is. I just don’t get how he can be so angry about it when random was so regretfully sullen but forthright and matter of fact about it.


#419

Poking my head back on here to say that…well, that is a bit of a harsh way of putting it, yes. I still have grievances regarding Kevin’s general conduct, but I will readily admit that my reactions to said conduct did not help matters.


#420

Its good to hear that reasurance. He was so venemous about the whole thing I alsmost started to wonder if I was mistaken and Kevin and the gang were all secretly a bunch of assholes… yea the further along I got in that statement the more difficulty I had continuing it…

Again, sorry you and the rest of the guys didn’t work out.