# Chainmail Sleeves

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/chainmail-sleeves/23835>\
**Category:** The Garage\
**Created:** [June 1, 2020, 5:07am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/chainmail-sleeves/23835 "2020-06-01T05:07:38Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 18\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![JENTHULHU](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/45deac/32.png) [@JENTHULHU](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/JENTHULHU)\
**Post date:** [June 1, 2020, 5:07am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/chainmail-sleeves/23835/1 "2020-06-01T05:07:38Z")

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I don’t know if this is part of an incomplete, but intended changeover or not, but… chainmail sleeves take 14 hours to complete, whereas all the other pieces take much less.

Additionally, it requires _either_ 176 Cotton Sheets or 8 Patchwork Cotton Clothing parts, which, well, a cotton sheet is .3L(.05 L more than a rag), and the Patchcork Cotton Clothing Parts are individually .06L.

A single cotton sheet requires thread and a loom and one other thing to make and takes like, a matter of minutes, and crafts 1 at a time.

Patchwork Cotton Clothing Parts takes 4.5 hours to make a batch of 4.

So, like, there seems to be a definitive imbalance here. I always assumed part of the reason Chainmail parts were so quick to make was you already did the bulk of construction by making the chain sheets, so 14 hours to make the sleeves seems a bit excessive, and there is _definitely_ something wonky going on with the Cotton Sheet vs Patchwork Cotton Clothing Parts angle.

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**Author:** ![dissociativity](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/dissociativity/32/4967_2.png) [@dissociativity](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/dissociativity)\
**Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 1:25am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/chainmail-sleeves/23835/2 "2020-06-02T01:25:45Z")

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this is a work in progress part of the tailoring overhaul to make tailoring more realistic, you’ll likely see all boots updated to follow this formula soon, but I will make it easier to make cotton clothing parts using sheets and blankets.

The arm recipes are the only ones implemented so far in-game.

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**Author:** ![JENTHULHU](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/45deac/32.png) [@JENTHULHU](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/JENTHULHU)\
**Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 2:40am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/chainmail-sleeves/23835/3 "2020-06-02T02:40:25Z")

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was the sheer volume of needed cotton sheets an error?

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**Author:** ![dissociativity](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/dissociativity/32/4967_2.png) [@dissociativity](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/dissociativity)\
**Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 8:23am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/chainmail-sleeves/23835/4 "2020-06-02T08:23:39Z")

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probably, I’ll look into it and fix up the recipe when my PR on boots is ready to go, I’m only really casually working on it because it’s such an annoying thing to do properly and accurate, likely hence the extra zero in the amount at least lol, need to make myself some spreadsheets to save time on math.

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**Author:** ![Wasylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@Wasylus](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Wasylus)\
**Post date:** [June 2, 2020, 11:30am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/chainmail-sleeves/23835/5 "2020-06-02T11:30:09Z")

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> [@dissociativity](#):
>
> …to make tailoring more realistic…

Oh my, I can hardly wait…

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**Author:** ![dissociativity](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/dissociativity/32/4967_2.png) [@dissociativity](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/dissociativity)\
**Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 2:59am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/chainmail-sleeves/23835/6 "2020-06-03T02:59:29Z")

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the game will mostly be the same, you’ll just not become an armoured warrior day 1 from hoarding sheets, instead the new meta will be finding and modifying/repairing existing gear, and there will be more improvised clothing.

Tailoring is currently brokenly overpowered.

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**Author:** ![JENTHULHU](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/45deac/32.png) [@JENTHULHU](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/JENTHULHU)\
**Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 3:51am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/chainmail-sleeves/23835/7 "2020-06-03T03:51:38Z")

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I would… disagree? especially with recent nerfs to the rate at which you get Kevlar

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**Author:** ![anothersimulacrum](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/anothersimulacrum/32/10770_2.png) [@anothersimulacrum](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/anothersimulacrum)\
**Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 4:21am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/chainmail-sleeves/23835/8 "2020-06-03T04:21:37Z")

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Disagree with what? Tailoring being overpowerful, or the game being the same?

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**Author:** ![JENTHULHU](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/45deac/32.png) [@JENTHULHU](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/JENTHULHU)\
**Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 5:31am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/chainmail-sleeves/23835/9 "2020-06-03T05:31:36Z")

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Tailoring being overpowered

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**Author:** ![JENTHULHU](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/45deac/32.png) [@JENTHULHU](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/JENTHULHU)\
**Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 5:37am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/chainmail-sleeves/23835/10 "2020-06-03T05:37:30Z")

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sorry to double-post, but to elaborate, unless recent changes(like this new ‘ballistic’ defense category) have _buffed_ player armors significantly, even the heavier player-made armors aren’t excessively overpowered, especially once the more dangerous special zombie types start coming into play. Especially with the coverage %s things have so that most armors will still just magically let 1-4 in 20 attacks through

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**Author:** ![Wasylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@Wasylus](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Wasylus)\
**Post date:** [June 3, 2020, 10:53am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/chainmail-sleeves/23835/11 "2020-06-03T10:53:38Z")

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Whether the armour values are too big or not is, of curse, a matter of discussion. But that’s somewhat subjective and arbitrary. And no, nothing wrong with it. It’s just that in the end, I’m afraid we will get: “Oh, look the tailoring is now more realistic, how cool is that?”. Instead of actual change towards: “Oh look, going armoured or light are two choices that are both valid and result in meaningfully different gameplay. Screw too much realism if it comes against that superior goal. How cool is that?”  
And possibly a little more cumbersome to play/interface with in addition.  
I hope, as usual that I am wrong.

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**Author:** ![Hdstaskr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f19dbf/32.png) [@Hdstaskr](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Hdstaskr)\
**Post date:** [June 7, 2020, 9:12am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/chainmail-sleeves/23835/12 "2020-06-07T09:12:43Z")

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Tailoring was NOT overpowered in my pre-nested build.

My character melted in sunlight and the only suitable armor to wear in sunlight is 0 heat chainmail at Fabrication 7.

Every other item, tailoted or not, is basically not gonna be worn since their warmth values are so high.

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**Author:** ![GiggleGrassGatherer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/gigglegrassgatherer/32/7743_2.png) [@GiggleGrassGatherer](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/GiggleGrassGatherer)\
**Post date:** [June 7, 2020, 12:09pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/chainmail-sleeves/23835/13 "2020-06-07T12:09:27Z")

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Unpopular opinion: %coverage should increase with your (currently not implemented) armor skill. If you’re newbie who doesn’t know jack sh\*t about how to fight, you WILL get hit in your weak spots. Randomly, yes, but you will, no ifs and whens. Warrior who knows what to expect, which parts to expose to enemy and which to hide, will get hit through armor way less often.

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**Author:** ![spicyshadow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5e9695/32.png) [@spicyshadow](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/spicyshadow)\
**Post date:** [June 7, 2020, 12:45pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/chainmail-sleeves/23835/14 "2020-06-07T12:45:59Z")

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This is arguably already in game since you can block with certain armour pieces which is partially based on melee skill E.G. how much general experience in melee you have. This would also be a problem for ranged attacks since a higher coverage means that your armour would be absorbing more shoots than it logically should since you can’t really control what parts of you are exposed to ranged fire.

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**Author:** ![GiggleGrassGatherer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/gigglegrassgatherer/32/7743_2.png) [@GiggleGrassGatherer](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/GiggleGrassGatherer)\
**Post date:** [June 7, 2020, 1:05pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/chainmail-sleeves/23835/15 "2020-06-07T13:05:48Z")

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If the %block is flat and equal to %coverage of armor pieces, it effectively means there’s no difference between someone who know how to fight in armor and the one who just slapped on whatever he could find and called it a day.

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**Author:** ![spicyshadow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5e9695/32.png) [@spicyshadow](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/spicyshadow)\
**Post date:** [June 7, 2020, 3:29pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/chainmail-sleeves/23835/16 "2020-06-07T15:29:19Z")

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Block isn’t flat but also dependent on strength and melee skill. So there is a difference between someone who has experience in close combat vs somebody that doesn’t.

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**Author:** ![Nonesuch](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/nonesuch/32/8516_2.png) [@Nonesuch](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Nonesuch)\
**Post date:** [June 7, 2020, 7:20pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/chainmail-sleeves/23835/17 "2020-06-07T19:20:54Z")

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I don’t find Tailoring to be overpowered either, as the best non-modded armor in the game (Powered Armor) cannot be crafted and must be looted, as well as coming with a bevy of restrictions on how it can be used. Other armors can be useful, but in general any opponent with a firearm (NPCs, turrets, robots) will eat your lunch in most engagements regardless of the non-PA armor you’re wearing. Add to that, unless you have specialized gear and/or bionics, Shocker and Acid-based zombies will beat you like a dead horse at close range. Getting surrounded by normal or slightly evolved zeds will also mulch you, even if it’s death by a thousand cuts. Try wearing a suit of full plate armor (which is damn near the pinnacle of “DON’T CUT ME, BRO!” technology) and get into a fight with a horde in melee. You WILL die. Alternately, try to fight a Kevlar Hulk or Skeletal Juggernaut in melee for much the same effect.  
Which does somewhat worry me as to the ‘overpowered’ rationale - is it the defense values? Or _just_ the crafting times?

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**Author:** ![Wasylus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@Wasylus](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Wasylus)\
**Post date:** [June 7, 2020, 10:43pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/chainmail-sleeves/23835/18 "2020-06-07T22:43:34Z")

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W dniu 2020-06-03 o 05:09, dissociativity via Cataclysm Dark Days Ahead  
pisze:

> [dissociativity] dissociativity  
> [https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/dissociativity](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/dissociativity) Patron  
> June 3
> 
> the game will mostly be the same, you’ll just not become an armoured  
> warrior day 1 from hoarding sheets, instead the new meta will be  
> finding and modifying/repairing existing gear, and there will be more  
> improvised clothing.
> 
> Tailoring is currently brokenly overpowered.
> 
> * * *

Obviously this is a matter of contention by some. The armor once WAS  
crazy overpowered. Possibly it still is a quite a bit. But crafting as  
crafting today? Not sure about that. What it comes to - crafting is as  
“overpowered” as the things it can do. Whether it is “crazy” overpowered  
or sanely overpowered in itself doen’t matter. All that would take to  
make it just right in terms of power would be meddling with WHAT and  
_WHEN_ you can make. No need to revamp all the system in my opinion.  
Especially because there is always a risk of breaking something that works.

Generally speaking greatly revamping any crafting skill is a loss of  
time anyhow IF the big change comes to how learnig works. And this  
changes is needed. Not the assumed overpowered tailoring but\_the ablity  
to go from zero to very high level in a day or two is **/crazy  
overpowerd/**.\_ Before that will be done any big revamp to any  
particular skill is in my opinion pointless. Once the learning is  
changed making crafting or any skill as potent as it should be easier.  
It will also require another signficant change anyway so might as well  
save time now.