Cease and Desist using the term Vacutainer

deadmerits · 2017-07-22T15:02:29.000Z

[quote=“deoxy, post:6, topic:14020”]…

Also, when did they trademark it, and when did it end up in the game (should be determinable from the source archive, I would think)? If it was provably in the game first, they can take a hike.

…[/quote]

Filing Date July 27, 1970
Current Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Registration Number 1042544
Registration Date June 29, 1976

I think they did it first

kevin.granade · 2017-07-22T17:09:43.000Z

As deoxy points out, just because they hold a trademark doesn’t mean they “own” the word. We arent selling a competing product or anything similar, therefore we aren’t infringing their trademark.

deoxy:

Oh, one more thing: defense of trademark is legally required.

Defence against infringement is required, sending people demand letters when they so much as mention your product is not.

Having said that, the comments that the item isn’t accurately described as a vacutainer have merit, we can certainly change it to something like “blood draw kit” on that basis.

Azrad · 2017-07-22T19:21:01.000Z

That said, is there any use to blood at the moment? Aside from a meal for the desperate.

deoxy · 2017-07-22T20:03:24.000Z

Azrad:

That said, is there any use to blood at the moment? Aside from a meal for the desperate.

The only use of it know of is as an ingredient in a certain recipe in the Arcana mod, but a few bloody rags can substitute, and there’s a tool that can be used to make you bleed, so it’s not at all necessary…

I think there’s supposed to be some kind of quest using the centrifuge in the hospital that never got finished.

NuG · 2017-07-22T20:32:34.000Z

deoxy:

[quote=“Azrad, post:10, topic:14020”]That said, is there any use to blood at the moment? Aside from a meal for the desperate.

The only use of it know of is as an ingredient in a certain recipe in the Arcana mod, but a few bloody rags can substitute, and there’s a tool that can be used to make you bleed, so it’s not at all necessary…

I think there’s supposed to be some kind of quest using the centrifuge in the hospital that never got finished.[/quote]

Yes I’ve gotten this mission, but not completed it. The NPC gives you a vacutainer and tells you to use it on a zombie you kill then take it to a specific centrifuge at a hospital. The one time I did it, the centrifuge had been busted by a brute or something stuck in the room with it, and I looked for another in a different hospital, but that ended me…

Anyway, wouldn’t you just need a tube/vial of blood for the centrifuge… and we already have syringes. Maybe just use a syringe to draw the blood and have a hip flask renamed to a vial or tube, be the container. Or just have a syringe of blood that you take to the centrifuge, and the centrifuge has vials with it.

Maybe you could make some sort of blood draw kit with a syringe, a rubber hose, and a container of some sort.

There are cigars in the game, maybe some could be fancy with a glass tube similar to a chemistry tube or vial.

I did see a post about an infinite blood exploit as well, over in the bugs section of the forum. http://smf.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?topic=14748.0

zombiechow · 2017-07-23T21:34:29.000Z

reads Well, I had no idea vacutainers was even a real life thing, much less a registered trademark. This game is good advertisement for them, honestly! Since I only knew what it was from playing the game. I can’t understand IP laws and protection of ‘interlectual’ property. hopefully we can evolve to a post copyright society, maybe when the robots take over

End_Transmission · 2017-07-23T21:36:49.000Z

I came in here all ready to be like “fuck the man keep using it use it harder!” because I’m Chaotic Neutral in real life, but then a quick glance at their C&D letter and I think just changing its name to Vacutainer ® would probably meet their usage guidelines? At a glance, anyway.

_k1 · 2017-07-24T01:43:57.000Z

The whole action from the company is likely a promoting scheme.

kevin.granade · 2017-07-24T03:00:51.000Z

End Transmission:

A quick glance at their C&D letter and I think just changing its name to Vacutainer ® would probably meet their usage guidelines? At a glance, anyway.

More or less, they also have some fairly arbitrary usage guidelines. The problem isn’t how onerous the demands are, the problem is that they’re making demands at all. As far as I can tell they have no legal right to make these demands. They’re just relying on people to not stand up for themselves precisely because their demands aren’t ornerous.

TheWumpus · 2017-07-24T10:25:47.000Z

It’s simple really. Just spell it vacutainr. They don’t hold a trademark on that.

In all seriousness the term itself is somewhat confusing to begin with. I never knew what the thing was without some trial and error whereas “blood draw kit” is intuitive.

NFossil · 2017-07-24T12:19:59.000Z

[quote=“TheWumpus, post:17, topic:14020”]It’s simple really. Just spell it vacutainr. They don’t hold a trademark on that.

In all seriousness the term itself is somewhat confusing to begin with. I never knew what the thing was without some trial and error whereas “blood draw kit” is intuitive.[/quote]

+1

Maybe it’s just because I’m not a native English speaker, the word “vacutainer” means nothing at all. I know “vacuum” and “contain” but the whole thing could easily mean a vacuum cleaner. It’s not as a common name as say, Coca Cola. While there might be many good arguments for taking a stand against cease and desist stuff, I really think the alternative of choosing a descriptive name would improve the game.

kevin.granade · 2017-07-24T15:54:03.000Z

I’m not suggesting we keep using the term to spite them, just pointing out that while the letter was polite, it wasn’t nice.

I’m in favor of changing to blood draw kit, Gimmie a PR somebody
(Pretty busy right now, which is why I’m not just doing it)

deoxy · 2017-07-24T18:55:00.000Z

Kevin Granade:

The problem isn’t how onerous the demands are, the problem is that they’re making demands at all. As far as I can tell they have no legal right to make these demands. They’re just relying on people to not stand up for themselves precisely because their demands aren’t ornerous.

Considering that they almost certainly have some level of “lawyers already on retainer” and we don’t, even bothering to reply (in a legal sense) is more than this is worth to edge cases like this, so yes, they are definitely doing that to some degree.

One weakness with a system like ours (where precedent is important - not saying it’s not the right way to do it, all systems have at least some weaknesses) is the ability to basically bluff your way into something - get enough nobodies like us to cave (because it worth literally nothing to us) over a long enough period of time, and you can sometimes manage to leverage that into a real thing.

It doesn’t help that the opposite of progress is Congress, and our esteemed Congresscritters spend more time handing out favors and lining their pockets than in actually attempting to do their Constitutional duties…

Kevin Granade:

I’m not suggesting we keep using the term to spite them, just pointing out that while the letter was polite, it wasn’t nice.

In legal proceedings, “polite” is usually the closest thing to “nice” that exists. We need a “loser pays” system SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO SO badly.

End_Transmission · 2017-07-24T21:12:52.000Z

Kevin Granade:

[quote=“End Transmission, post:14, topic:14020”]A quick glance at their C&D letter and I think just changing its name to Vacutainer ® would probably meet their usage guidelines? At a glance, anyway.

More or less, they also have some fairly arbitrary usage guidelines. The problem isn’t how onerous the demands are, the problem is that they’re making demands at all. As far as I can tell they have no legal right to make these demands. They’re just relying on people to not stand up for themselves precisely because their demands aren’t ornerous.[/quote]

Word, man. I really dig your punk-rock stance on this. If I was in charge of things, I would totally be adamant about continuing to use the term to spite them, but that’s why people don’t let me be in charge of things. Well, except the game company I own. But in that case I have my partner to act as a check/balance against my default “FUCK AUTHORITY” instincts.

Edit: Actually…I think the single easiest thing to do would be to change it to Vaccutainer. The extra C is for Copyright Evasion!

Treah · 2017-07-24T22:40:03.000Z

[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:19, topic:14020”]I’m not suggesting we keep using the term to spite them, just pointing out that while the letter was polite, it wasn’t nice.

I’m in favor of changing to blood draw kit, Gimmie a PR somebody
(Pretty busy right now, which is why I’m not just doing it)[/quote]

I changed it and created a PR on this

github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA

by Treah on 09:25PM - 24 Jul 17

3 commits changed 9 files with 14 additions and 14 deletions.

Ly1 · 2017-07-25T08:06:33.000Z

Can we leave it as it is, but also retcon the story so that a shoddily manufactured batch of VACUTAINER® was the cause of the zombie apocalypse?

NuG · 2017-07-25T13:56:03.000Z

Ly:

Can we leave it as it is, but also retcon the story so that a shoddily manufactured batch of VACUTAINER® was the cause of the zombie apocalypse?

Now that’s funny :).

ZoneWizard · 2017-07-26T23:52:40.000Z

Other terms:

VampTainer
HemoDraw

I’m sure if we just use the blood draw kit, that everyone should understand =)

WTF is a vacutainer anyway?? I got the idea, but the name sounds retarded. It sounds really “sucky” lol

TheWumpus · 2017-07-30T11:13:38.000Z

[quote=“ZoneWizard, post:25, topic:14020”]Other terms:

VampTainer
HemoDraw

I’m sure if we just use the blood draw kit, that everyone should understand =)

WTF is a vacutainer anyway?? I got the idea, but the name sounds retarded. It sounds really “sucky” lol[/quote]

TNGCaption80b.jpg694×530

_k1 · 2017-07-30T15:39:15.000Z

Is that a Martian or a vampire?