Can not be so fast to become alcoholics

[Reaper]

Two days of drinking moonshine
@
Become alcoholic.
I think it must be more hard. And drinking bout != alcoholism. And mineral water / brine should help with the hangover.
Who can share their experience?

[jcd]

Alcoholism in 2 days seems certainly fast to me.

I believe that to become an alcoholic you have to drink a lot, but you also have to do that for a prolonged period… say weeks or months…

[Solusphere]

Reminds me of that One F Jef LP where he became an alcoholic after drinking one bottle of wine

[kevin.granade]

Sure we can make it more realistic, but that means on the other hand the addiction is permanent, sound fun?

[John_Candlebury]

Sure we can make it more realistic, but that means on the other hand the addiction is permanent, sound fun?

In all honesty, I am all for making addictions permanent.

[Keyreper]

It depends on how much over a period of time it takes for your character to become addicted permanently, I wouldn’t want to make alcohol in game if my character is likely to become addicted to alcohol permanently if I drink the whole batch I made.

[kilozombie]

Sure we can make it more realistic, but that means on the other hand the addiction is permanent, sound fun?

Make it so the addiction (ala bad things happen if you don’t) is permanent, but if you spend enough time off the wagon you lose the bad effects. You’re still addicted though, might get occasional cravings (don’t carry any) and if you get back on the wagon one time all the bad effects return on withdrawal.

[Anxiety]

I don’t like the idea of permanent addictions, personally. Addiction is already devastating enough in the short run.

Currently, any loss short of death can be recovered. Mutations can be cured or reacquired. Malfunctioning bionics can be removed. Vehicles, buildings, and items can be replaced. The only things that can’t change are certain chargen traits. Permanent addictions would be like negative chargen traits.

As an option, however, permanent addictions would add more options for the player. It could be a game option, or the result of a particular chargen trait, or maybe professions could grant permanent addictions.

[kevin.granade]

[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:4, topic:7016”]Sure we can make it more realistic, but that means on the other hand the addiction is permanent, sound fun?

Make it so the addiction (ala bad things happen if you don’t) is permanent, but if you spend enough time off the wagon you lose the bad effects. You’re still addicted though, might get occasional cravings (don’t carry any) and if you get back on the wagon one time all the bad effects return on withdrawal.[/quote]
Yes, that’s pretty much what I’d do in greater detail if we took that direction.
If we did forced actions like taking the drug of choice when cravings hit, it’d be hidden behind the addictive personality trait or a similar trait, I just don’t think forced actions like that are reasonable as a default.

I don’t like the idea of permanent addictions, personally. Addiction is already devastating enough in the short run.

The suggestion to make them permanent is in reaction to, ‘make them not as bad because of realism’, I’m pointing out that if we make addictive substances more realistic, it will strictly be in the form of making them more harsh. As they are now they’re incredibly forgiving and beneficial compared to reality. Making them even better or more forgiving is just silly.

Currently, any loss short of death can be recovered. Mutations can be cured or reacquired. Malfunctioning bionics can be removed. Vehicles, buildings, and items can be replaced. The only things that can’t change are certain chargen traits. Permanent addictions would be like negative chargen traits.

That’s arguably a problem, not everything should be reversible, some things SHOULD have permanent consequences other than death.

[Reaper]

I have one quick fix. Make depending of craving from addiction intensity. Just reduce max morale penalty and addiction on early stages be not so hard. I think it should work, but now you get maximum morale penalty anyway.
8419 fixed.

[kevin.granade]

You haven’t made a case for the penalty being a problem, that needs to come before a fix.

[Reaper]

On low levels it works like a hangover. After 4200 + 100 * intensity turns it ends. (~7-8 hours). And with intensity = 5 (after good drinking) it made 30 (intensity*6 for example) morale penalty instead 120. Another way: reduce slated timer to 1200 + 100 * intensity and reduce intensity by 1 and ends of this instead (intensity / 2) - 1. In this case small addictions will disappear faster, but removing strong addictions becomes difficulty. But need exception for opiates.

[vultures]

Ummm … so when my character’s slamming his face into the floor for some days now, he’s just hangover, right?

[jcd]

i’d be all for making addictions permanent.
I guess player gets buffs from using an addictive substance while not addicted, then getting larger buffs (and some progressively larger debuffs) when using while addicted, then huge debuffs for withdrawals, and maybe minor debuffs/some smaller handicap if the player has managed to ‘rehab’.

But, as it has already been said, the threshold for gaining the addiction a second time should be much lower, and the debuffs (and permanent debuffs) worse from the second time onwards someone gets addicted.

This should also handicap mutagen/purifier use somewhat. I can imagine getting addicted to one of these, then having to face big addiction problems.

[Catfoodbob]

and add a feature on the granade that can remove addiction cough cough bad idea …

i think it would force people to moderate their mutagen chugging at least, mabye not thos people who wade in radiation to mutate… but i think it would be appreciated if some warning when you are getting close to the permanence threshold.

also is royal jelly addictive?

and should royal jelly be able to be used to bring you down on the addiction chart…

[pingpong]

It’d be nice if there was some sort of “antidote” or something for either all addictions, or just for a few. Alcohol seems like it should be a good idea for feeling warmer or the ethanol burner, but maybe a medicine could lessen the addiction so it can’t be at a level greater than like the first step down. Or better, allow the ethanol burner to not use it like a drink, and make some positive effects last longer.

[Bumpkin]

Maybe there should be a game-difference between addiction and dependence.

• If you become addicted it can be to stimulants or depressants instead of specific drugs, and your level of addiction increases as you continue to use, increasing quicker for stronger drugs. Once you reach certain levels of addiction, weaker drugs like caffeine or codeine will no longer be able to fully satisfy you. It effects mostly morale and maybe some stat debuffs, and as your levels of addiction increase, the “floor” on your minimum addiction debuffs increases. Become a hardcore meth addict and then no matter how long you go without using there’ll be some minor addiction debuffs that will never go away.

• If you become dependent then you suffer the really severe physical withdrawals which can be completely debilitating and can kill you in extreme cases. Non-addictive personalities can still become dependent. Dependence should be rarer, it takes weeks of full-time heroin use or years of alcoholism to get a serious dependency, which would be an impressive feat in game-terms.

[vultures]

Hazardous ammounts of drinking should be firmly tied up to character’s constitution and willpower stats; since we don’t practice those in CataDDA, these should highly revolve on strength. A happy drunk, however, isn’t the one with issues - and anything mooching off character’s mind and body health should either prevent him from drinking (tastes awful, vomits, etc.) or kick his addiction up one notch. However, there should be a clear distinction between recreational and habitual drinking. The first one is when you don’t need to be wasted all your waking hours, as you treat the side-efect of other depressive afflictions that come up during your gameplay.

[Zireael]

It’d be nice if there was some sort of “antidote” or something for either all addictions, or just for a few. Alcohol seems like it should be a good idea for feeling warmer or the ethanol burner, but maybe a medicine could lessen the addiction so it can’t be at a level greater than like the first step down. Or better, allow the ethanol burner to not use it like a drink, and make some positive effects last longer.

That’s a good idea. Burning ethanol shouldn’t cause addiction anyways.

[nonymous]

I had a couple bottles of beer one rainy afternoon while reading. Next day I had a quick pull of tequila to take the edge off after a bad automobile accident. Had a beer that night before bed. The next day a hallucinatory jabberwock assaulted me in my bedroom.

IRL I drink more than this most weekends, and rarely if ever have a strong craving for alcohol. I have never once hallucinated because I wasn’t drunk.