# Can enemies get crippled/debuffed?
**URL:** https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/can-enemies-get-crippled-debuffed/23042
**Category:** The Drawing Board
**Created:** [March 24, 2020, 6:52am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/can-enemies-get-crippled-debuffed/23042 "2020-03-24T06:52:20Z")
**Posts on this page:** 8
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Trivega](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Trivega)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2020, 6:52am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/can-enemies-get-crippled-debuffed/23042/1 "2020-03-24T06:52:20Z")
Can (or do they already) enemies receive the same debuffs the Player gets? I’m talking broken limbs, poisoned, blinded, stamina loss, morale effects - all that jazz. Evening the playing field.
-Can you break bandits arms, forcing weapon drops?
-Shoot out a turrets camera vastly decrease their accuracy?
-Break zombies legs, giving you breathing room?
-Destroy weapons on the big robots cutting their damage in half?
-Getting fat zeds bile on other zeds turn them on one another?
-Popping the tank of a Hazmat zed, flooding area with smoke?
-Cutting survivor zeds backpack, causing him to drop his loot?
It would be nice to have the same odds of causing debuffs to enemies that they do to the player. (And if this is already in or being planned than great! Forgive my ignorance)
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### Author:  [@Junknown](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Junknown)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2020, 7:53am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/can-enemies-get-crippled-debuffed/23042/2 "2020-03-24T07:53:37Z")
Npc’s can be affected by everything that can affect the player. Monsters on the other hand are tireless, indefatigable, fearless\*, feel no pain and are represented with a single health bar with no anatomy whatsoever.
That means the first thing on your list is possible while everything else isn’t.
For a more in depth answer see [the frequently made suggestions thread](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/fms-frequently-made-suggestions/9764), which has a section dedicated to this kind of question:
> [@FMS: Frequently Made Suggestions](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/fms-frequently-made-suggestions/9764/1):
>
> Monsters
>
> 1. Separate limbs for monsters: not useful
> The suggestion is usually along the lines of, “add limbs to monsters so they can be crippled”. The problem with this approach is you can add crippling attacks much more easily by just applying a crippling effect to the monster, there’s no need to track per-limb HP for monsters to make it happen. Also, a limb system for monsters would be much more complicated than the one for players, since monsters have a more variable number of limbs, so we couldn’t even just use the code from the player-based system.
> 2. Targeted attacks on monster body parts: not useful
> A similar suggestion is to allow the player to target specific monster body parts in order to achieve specific effects such as stunning with headshots or slowing by hitting the legs. A much simpler system is to have the player declare the effect they want rather than something indirect like targeting a limb, then we can be more flexible about how the attack plays out based on the combination of player abilities, weapon used, and monster type.
> For a better outline on what we DO want to do, see [https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/1565](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/1565)
\* Not true for all monsters, notably Mi-Gos know true fear.
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### Author:  [@Aluminumfoil](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Aluminumfoil)
#### Post date: [March 24, 2020, 7:48pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/can-enemies-get-crippled-debuffed/23042/3 "2020-03-24T19:48:02Z")
As mentioned, monsters can’t run out of stamina, have locational damage, or be given pain or sadness. Monsters can have effects applied to them, including attack effects (bleeding, stun, knockdown, etc) and field effects (smoke, tear gas, fire, etc). Many monsters are immune to some effects based on their physiology.
Monsters can feel fear. The next time a small animal attacks you, try yelling at it.
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### Author:  [@Valase](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Valase)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2020, 2:41am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/can-enemies-get-crippled-debuffed/23042/4 "2020-03-25T02:41:32Z")
> [@Junknown](#):
>
> Monsters […] are […] fearless\*, feel no pain […]
> [@Aluminumfoil](#):
>
> Monsters can feel fear.
I’d like to add that they also feel pain. This modifies their morale and fear, which in turn determines if it will flee or fight. Other things that modifies morale are number of monsters from the same class nearby (positive effect, meaning it will fight) and seeing a friendly monster die (negative effect).
Everything stated above apllies to monster in a wider sense, including cattle, cats, dogs…
… And excluding everything zombiefied\* or blob-controlled, as they are truly fearless, emotionless, don’t breath and are a pain in the - uh, I mean… don’t feel pain.
\*Basegame, I can’t talk for mods.
Back on topic:
> [@Trivega](#):
>
> -Can you break bandits arms, forcing weapon drops?
No (as of 0.E), but you can try to disarm them in melee.
> [@Trivega](#):
>
> -Getting fat zeds bile on other zeds turn them on one another?
Why would it turn them hostile towards each other? As far as I understand, they swarm towards you because you glow like a billboard on steroids (and maybe because of the smell too), not because of the bile itself.
> [@Trivega](#):
>
> -Popping the tank of a Hazmat zed, flooding area with smoke?
I like to imagine this situation, but I think they store breathable air in these tanks, not smoke/gas. Also, they probably used up (or to be more precise: the tanks run out of) all the air that was stored in them…
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### Author:  [@Trivega](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Trivega)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2020, 2:49am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/can-enemies-get-crippled-debuffed/23042/5 "2020-03-25T02:49:21Z")
-The bile was an example, so maybe they get glowly instead…either way whatever explodes out of them would cause some confusion buying the player some time.
-sorry im thinking movie magic where the tank is shot & magically explodes. There could be a better enemy this would work on where smoke/gas is released when their tank is shot. (firefighter zeds?)
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### Author:  [@Valase](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Valase)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2020, 3:13am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/can-enemies-get-crippled-debuffed/23042/6 "2020-03-25T03:13:45Z")
> [@Trivega](#):
>
> […] whatever explodes out of them would cause some confusion buying the player some time.
Hm, I’ve noticed (although a few versions back) that the “exploding” huge boomer pushes other Zombies back one tile (away from the explosion center, or if that place is occupied, into some “illogical” direction). Not quiet what you asked for, but it can buy you some time.
Although I’m still not invested in adding shootable tanks on Zombies, I would enjoy if it would get applied to items (shoot them on the ground or if they break in your hand), like anesthesia kit with charges would release relaxation gas, fire extinguisher will release smoke (was it that what you imagined for firefighter Zombies?), etc.
This could also be used to distract zombies, as it would make noise, cover up your odor and may break line of sight.
It’s on my list of things to add as soon as the feature blockage gets lifted.
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### Author:  [@Trivega](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Trivega)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2020, 10:58am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/can-enemies-get-crippled-debuffed/23042/7 "2020-03-25T10:58:01Z")
You bring up another point, can ground objects be shot at to disperse effects like that? Yeah the fire extinguisher was what i was picturing.
It doesn’t have to be shootable tanks on Zeds, but I would like there to be more risk-reward options to cleverly find ways to use aspects of certain zombies to your advantage.(exploding boomers pushing zeds or causing confusion)
Like you mentioned, more options to cause distractions, reduce noise/smell, etc…which is my primary goal with this topic.
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### Author:  [@Valase](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Valase)
#### Post date: [March 25, 2020, 7:23pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/can-enemies-get-crippled-debuffed/23042/8 "2020-03-25T19:23:48Z")
> [@Trivega](#):
>
> […] can ground objects be shot at to disperse effects like that?
Well, yes and no. I think it was possible to shoot grenades and they exploded (a long time ago), but I just tried it and it just vanished (well, it’s also possible that I just remember it wrong).
However, you can shoot containers with acid in them and it will leave a pool\* of acid. You can also throw glass bottles of acid and it will leave acid on the ground wherever it hits.
\*Figuratively speaking. It depends on the amount of acid and the type (nitric, concentrated, …)
> [@Trivega](#):
>
> […] cleverly find ways to use aspects of certain zombies to your advantage.
There are some things/monsters you can use to your advantage, like the smoker zombie, which can be used to distract other zombies by breaking line of sight and cover up your smell.
The problem with adding more such things is, the game’s balance is going out the window. As it stands now, guns are considered a little “overpowered” and giving them more advantages will make them even more overpowered.
…And for melee; I’m not sure you really want to stand next to an exploding fire exinguisher…
That said… beeing able to aim for the zombie’s pheromone ball does sound really appealing.