Braziers

[KA101]

[quote=“i2amroy, post:13, topic:1405”][quote=“Iosyn, post:7, topic:1405”]It’s not just the bites now mate. Regular attacks have a 1/10 chance of causing an infection IIRC.
Needless to say, but Bites and Deep bites have a much higher chance of becoming infected.[/quote]
False actually. Infection chance is the same as always, being a 10% chance on being bitten. (Though we are certainly looking at adding more to the infection system for normal wounds, etc.).

As for getting hit by various things, yeah, there was a big monster buff, especially since now bites actually have a better chance to hit you then normal attacks do, since monsters won’t “miss” on bite specials, meaning if you don’t dodge it it hits.

My personal advice is to train dodge on something that doesn’t bite first (wolves, coyotes, and cougars work fairly well) before you try to train on zombies.[/quote]

Now, if you Block a bite attack, does that inflict the Bite?

[iceball3]

Also, am i supposed to be able to be bitten cleanly through an army helmet? I’ve been Bite Wound’d, Poisoned’d, Bleeding’d, and normally damaged via shots that should’ve generally been perfectly blocked by the helmet (hits the head, not eyes or mouth)

[halberdsturgeon]

If it inflicts damage, it wasn’t ‘perfectly blocked’.

[iceball3]

[quote=“halberdsturgeon, post:16, topic:1405”]If it inflicts damage, it wasn’t ‘perfectly blocked’.[/quote]That is what i am saying. Why wouldnt it block a zombie bite or a wasp sting?

[halberdsturgeon]

In abstract? For the same reason you can be damaged through kevlar - they bit or stung you in a place where your protection wasn’t perfect. Neck, jaw, shoulder, whatever. Technically? Because they inflicted more damage than your armour was able to mitigate. Game balance? Because armour isn’t meant to make you immune to damage.

[iceball3]

In abstract? For the same reason you can be damaged through kevlar - they bit or stung you in a place where your protection wasn’t perfect. Neck, jaw, shoulder, whatever. Technically? Because they inflicted more damage than your armour was able to mitigate. Game balance? Because armour isn’t meant to make you immune to damage.

1: But the game explicitly stated i was hit where my armor had coverage on my head. If it was the eyes or mouth slot then I’d obviously not mind receiving that injury if it was due to a facial wound.
2 and 3: I am still not convinced that normal zeds can bite clean through an army helmet, unless the devs decide to actually establish an exceeding strength by having them bite off entire limbs.

[iceball3]

In abstract? For the same reason you can be damaged through kevlar - they bit or stung you in a place where your protection wasn’t perfect. Neck, jaw, shoulder, whatever. Technically? Because they inflicted more damage than your armour was able to mitigate. Game balance? Because armour isn’t meant to make you immune to damage.

1: But the game explicitly stated i was hit where my armor had coverage on my head. If it was the eyes or mouth slot then I’d obviously not mind receiving that injury if it was due to a facial wound, where the helmet fails to cover.
2 and 3: I am still not convinced that normal zeds should be allowed to bite clean through an army helmet, unless the devs decide to actually establish an exceeding strength by having them bite off entire limbs.

[halberdsturgeon]

So you think armour should be more powerful, is what you’re saying.

[DWC]

Maybe the zombie bit the back of his neck, or pushed the helmet back and knawed on his forehead. A kevlar helmet seems pretty bite proof to me but it’s not infallible in real life and should’nt make one zombie-proof in the game.

Then again, I notice in the recent builds enemies seem to hit almost exclusively in the head and torso. Especially the head. Like, damn put your hands up in front or something I don’t know how you can let a wolf bite you in the mouth 6 times in a row.

[Iosyn]

To be real honest I’d much prefer being bitten in the head rather than the neck. so just roll with how it is. A neck option opens up room for a second critical kill zone and you KNOW some evil bastard is gonna have wolves and cougars jumping for the jugular.

[Argoroth]

Like, damn put your hands up in front or something I don’t know how you can let a wolf bite you in the mouth 6 times in a row.

They just want to kiss you!

[i2amroy]

[quote=“iceball3, post:20, topic:1405”]1: But the game explicitly stated i was hit where my armor had coverage on my head. If it was the eyes or mouth slot then I’d obviously not mind receiving that injury if it was due to a facial wound, where the helmet fails to cover.
2 and 3: I am still not convinced that normal zeds should be allowed to bite clean through an army helmet, unless the devs decide to actually establish an exceeding strength by having them bite off entire limbs.[/quote]
Army helmet:

Notice all of the area that is not covered by the helmet? Army helmets aren’t giant bubbles that completely surround your head. Thus it is fully possible to get hit with a bite at spots where you aren’t fully covered.

Now, if you Block a bite attack, does that inflict the Bite?

As best as I can tell, yes, which should probably be considered a bug (it has been a while since I looked at that code though, so something might have changed int he meantime.

[KA101]

[quote=“i2amroy, post:25, topic:1405”][quote=“iceball3, post:20, topic:1405”]1: But the game explicitly stated i was hit where my armor had coverage on my head. If it was the eyes or mouth slot then I’d obviously not mind receiving that injury if it was due to a facial wound, where the helmet fails to cover.
2 and 3: I am still not convinced that normal zeds should be allowed to bite clean through an army helmet, unless the devs decide to actually establish an exceeding strength by having them bite off entire limbs.[/quote]
Army helmet:

Notice all of the area that is not covered by the helmet? Army helmets aren’t giant bubbles that completely surround your head. Thus it is fully possible to get hit with a bite at spots where you aren’t fully covered.[/quote]

However, a Motorcycle Helmet would be pretty much 100% coverage. Space Helmet (cf. Hazmat Suit) would in fact be the head-surrounding giant bubble, FWIW.

[quote=“KA101, post:14, topic:1405”]Now, if you Block a bite attack, does that inflict the Bite?

As best as I can tell, yes, which should probably be considered a bug (it has been a while since I looked at that code though, so something might have changed int he meantime.[/quote]

OK, that could be an issue (especially with WBlock, where the zed only hit your weapon). I recall GlyphGryph (I think) or some other dev talking about how Bites were guaranteed hits if the PC didn’t Dodge, though, and that seems like a fairly hefty nerf to blocks and heavy armor.

[i2amroy]

OK, that could be an issue (especially with WBlock, where the zed only hit your weapon). I recall GlyphGryph (I think) or some other dev talking about how Bites were guaranteed hits if the PC didn’t Dodge, though, and that seems like a fairly hefty nerf to blocks and heavy armor.

That was me actually. And the exact thing I was referring to was that for normal attacks creatures have a built in chance to “miss” based on their melee skills (normal zombies are somewhere in the 8-10% range IIRC). Special attacks (such as vine/tentacle whip attacks or bites) don’t have that chance to “miss”, so the only times they won’t hit is if the player manages to dodge them.

As for block/armor against bite it appears that it bypasses all block checks but does take into account armor. Thus being a crazy kung-fu master (with a low dodge skill) or having a weapon with a large block chance won’t help you, but having good armor will protect you from the damage. As for the bite “disease”, it has a 1 in 10 chance to apply if you don’t dodge it, regardless of whether or not it penetrates your armor (which I’ll probably take a shot at fixing right now).

[eternalflame]

[quote=“KA101, post:26, topic:1405”]OK, that could be an issue (especially with WBlock, where the zed only hit your weapon). I recall GlyphGryph (I think) or some other dev talking about how Bites were guaranteed hits if the PC didn’t Dodge, though, and that seems like a fairly hefty nerf to blocks and heavy armor.

That was me actually. And the exact thing I was referring to was that for normal attacks creatures have a built in chance to “miss” based on their melee skills (normal zombies are somewhere in the 8-10% range IIRC). Special attacks (such as vine/tentacle whip attacks or bites) don’t have that chance to “miss”, so the only times they won’t hit is if the player manages to dodge them.

As for block/armor against bite it appears that it bypasses all block checks but does take into account armor. Thus being a crazy kung-fu master (with a low dodge skill) or having a weapon with a large block chance won’t help you, but having good armor will protect you from the damage. As for the bite “disease”, it has a 1 in 10 chance to apply if you don’t dodge it, regardless of whether or not it penetrates your armor (which I’ll probably take a shot at fixing right now).[/quote]Perhaps you might fix bears causing bleeding through armour too? They definitely were not penetrating my power armour.

[iceball3]

There is also the same issue with poisoning, etc.
Anything that causes effects doesn’t really check whether you actually got injured by the attack first…

[100Rads]

Derailing a derailed thread, but whatever. Are sledgehammers worthy for battle? How much strength would I need to use one effectively, and will there ever be a way to increase strenght, perception, dexterity and intelligence without mutations?

[i2amroy]

[quote=“iceball3, post:29, topic:1405”]There is also the same issue with poisoning, etc.
Anything that causes effects doesn’t really check whether you actually got injured by the attack first…[/quote]
Pull request updated to include bleeding and poison effects, thanks for the heads up.

As for sledgehammers unless you’ve got some nice STR boosting mutations or hydraulic muscles they usually aren’t worth bothering with.

For increasing stats without mutations right now I’m looking at maybe making a system for it, but it would have three key features:
1)A lot of work for a little gain.
2)Could decrease back to your normal levels.
3)Will be capped at a realistic value (to show how you can reach a point where your body is limiting you, not how much you are working out).

[Weyrling]

Derailing a derailed thread, but whatever. Are sledgehammers worthy for battle? How much strength would I need to use one effectively, and will there ever be a way to increase strenght, perception, dexterity and intelligence without mutations?

In order to use a sledgehammer effectively depends on both your strength and your bashing skill.
The bash damage of a sledgehammer is 40, your strength+skill must equal 35 to utilize it properly as the damage cap for bashing is 5+str+skill.
Basic conclusion is that if you want to fight with a sledgehammer, start with really high strength and try to find Hydraulic Muscles.

For increasing stats without mutations right now I'm looking at maybe making a system for it...

This sounds pretty good, having stats be dynamic would be great for those who want to adapt to different playstyles without starting a new character or drinking mutagens.

[KA101]

[quote=“KA101, post:26, topic:1405”]OK, that could be an issue (especially with WBlock, where the zed only hit your weapon). I recall GlyphGryph (I think) or some other dev talking about how Bites were guaranteed hits if the PC didn’t Dodge, though, and that seems like a fairly hefty nerf to blocks and heavy armor.

That was me actually. And the exact thing I was referring to was that for normal attacks creatures have a built in chance to “miss” based on their melee skills (normal zombies are somewhere in the 8-10% range IIRC). Special attacks (such as vine/tentacle whip attacks or bites) don’t have that chance to “miss”, so the only times they won’t hit is if the player manages to dodge them.

As for block/armor against bite it appears that it bypasses all block checks but does take into account armor. Thus being a crazy kung-fu master (with a low dodge skill) or having a weapon with a large block chance won’t help you, but having good armor will protect you from the damage. As for the bite “disease”, it has a 1 in 10 chance to apply if you don’t dodge it, regardless of whether or not it penetrates your armor (which I’ll probably take a shot at fixing right now).[/quote]

Well, there is the bonus for H2H blocking where you only take 50% (or less: Taekwondo & Tai Chi can get massive damage-reduction) of the damage, so with good arm/leg armor MA-fighters would be able to soak the damage. Basically a slap to WBlock.

Good to see heavy-armor getting the boost: that ought to make Kevlar/Plate/Powered more viable.