# Berserk Martial Art suggestions/tips

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/berserk-martial-art-suggestions-tips/27243>\
**Category:** The Drawing Board\
**Tags:** mod, json\
**Created:** [October 29, 2021, 12:34am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/berserk-martial-art-suggestions-tips/27243 "2021-10-29T00:34:09Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 8\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![discountmusketeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@discountmusketeer](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/discountmusketeer)\
**Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 12:34am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/berserk-martial-art-suggestions-tips/27243/1 "2021-10-29T00:34:09Z")

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Hey guys. After getting back into the game after a while away, I’ve gotten an itch to try my hand at some modding. Right now this is mostly for my own edification, but I’d like to work towards getting good enough to start contributing to one of the larger mods someday.

I’d like to make a martial art representing the warrior traditions of of pre-medieval Northern Europe, represented most famously by Viking Berserkers but also present in the myths of the Celts, the Irish, Germans, etc. You know the archetype–the furious berserker, unarmored and frothing as they throw themselves against their foes without a care for injury.

My imagined archetype would be of a high-damage, low-defense style that is characterized by reckless aggression.  
I’d love to figure out a way to give it some armor-based restrictions–maybe a scaling dodge debuff/buff, where being buck naked gives you a bonus to dodge, something light like leather or fur is a minor bonus, and heavier stuff like survivor or turnout gear is a major malus. I’d also consider giving it a reduced chance to block or something, to represent the carelessness to injury. No idea if that sort of encumbrance-based effect is possible in .json martial arts.

To counterbalance it, it should be an offensive powerhouse. Focusing on damage rather than accuracy–no feints or recovery or counters. Big damage buffs, maybe sweep attacks, with some brutal critical effects. Also, considering a stacking buff that triggers on taking damage, or one that reduces effective pain for a while.

I’m debating how I could represent the exhaustion aspect of the berserk–an on-kill buff that degrades over time and turns into a crippling debuff after enough time, maybe extending on kill? It might not be worth the complication.

As you can tell, I’m leaning more towards the fantastic with the ideas on this one. I’d appreciate suggestions, ideas and feedback.

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**Author:** ![NetSysFire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/97f17d/32.png) [@NetSysFire](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/NetSysFire)\
**Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 5:18am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/berserk-martial-art-suggestions-tips/27243/2 "2021-10-29T05:18:30Z")

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Seeing that reminded me of

> <https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/51355>
>
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> \#### Summary
> Content "Adds new heavy weapon based martial art, Barbaran Montante, and adds WBLOCK\_1 flag to heavy sledge hammers."
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> 
> \#### Purpose of change
> This adds a new martial art entirely based on the 16th century writings of Luis Barbaran II and the subsequent style of heavy weapon fighting that countered heavy armor, primarily because there was a notable lack of engaging melee styles for this group of weapons (heavy blades and hammers) and niche of combat (countering heavy armor via one-on-one combat). In addition, while testing, the heavy sledge was found to lack a blocking tag, and adding that tag allows it to block before the slow attack finishes and prevent constant interrupts, allowing a very niche use as a slow high-bash weapon (useful but not too powerful against Skeletal Juggernauts, for example).
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> 
> \#### Describe the solution
> Barbaran Montante uses heavy weaponry in an engaged fashion, allowing the player to choose their techniques by either moving or pausing. It does not deal well with multiple enemies, unless dealing with lined-up enemies in chokepoints (based on original real world text), by lacking additional blocks/dodges but having an impale technique.
> The style focuses on armor penetration and either movement into knockback or pauses into heavy armor piercing strikes, depending on the situation and player preference.
> 
> Name | Level Available | Type | Effect
> \--- | --- | --- | ---
> Barbaran Represa | Melee 0 | Static Buff | +75% Str armor penetration
> Reversing Destreza | Melee 1 | OnBlock Buff | -5% movecost, Stacks: 2, Duration: 3
> Impaling Estocada | Melee 2 | Melee Tech | +10% Cut & Stab, +20% movecost, Impale only, Min 8 Cut
> Swift Atajo | Melee 2 | Melee Tech | -33% damage, -50% movecost, Disarm only
> Ricasso Step | Melee 3 | OnMove Buff | Blocked damage reduced by 40% of Str, Stacks: 3, Duration: 3
> Vulgar Preparation | Melee 4 | OnPause Buff | +15% of Str to accuracy, +225% Str armor penetration, Duration: 1
> Movimiento Natural | Melee 5 | OnKill Buff | +1 Block attempts, Duration: 5
> 
> \*\*Barbaran Represa\*\* (Barbaran Footwork) represents the Represa footwork style of Barbaran's teachings.
> This is admittedly a very focused static buff, which solely grants armor penetration and nothing else.
> 
> \*\*Reversing Destreza\*\* (Reversing Dexterity, or Reversing Stance) aims to replicate the heavy blocks that are used in Barbaran Montante, representing them throwing the opponent off-balance by speeding up the player slightly.
> 
> \*\*Ricasso Step\*\* (Flourish/Guard Step) is focused on a powerful block, but the style has only one block (conditionally 2, see Movimiento Natural), representing the style's lack of options for being surrounded but good coverage against a duelist.
> This buff reduces blocked damage (from the style's single, weapon-dependent block) by 120% when fully stacked.
> 
> \*\*Impaling Estocada\*\* (Impaling Thrust) represents the style's usage of thrusts. This technique provides an option for impaling when properly chokepointing enemies, which is the style's only way of countering groups of enemies.
> 
> \*\*Swift Atajo\*\* (Swift Disarm/Counter) provides a Disarm option (I found references to "atajo", or "the short interception", in Iberian fighting manuals), which doubles as a rapid attack- however, it can only trigger once per enemy and only if they were wielding a weapon, and is not a substantial buff despite it's technical increase in DPS.
> 
> \*\*Vulgar Preparation\*\* (Common Preparation) represents less of a pause and more of a slow swing that is beginning during the pause.
> Rather than enabling powerful techniques, this buffs existing techniques.
> 
> \*\*Movimiento Natural\*\* (Natural Movement) aims to provide a unique buff that is not out of the scope of reality- a practiced sword fighter's confidence after reducing the number of enemies to deal with could theoretically provide (admittedly only a bit, not this much, but it is a game) a performance increase.
> 
> The style may be selected as part of Melee Weapon Training, or a training manual may be found, generating very rarely in the exotic\_books pool or moderately rarely in the mansion\_books pool (to represent the manual's status as a historical artifact).
> 
> 
> \#### Describe alternatives you've considered
> Include underutilized "lategame" weaponry in other styles, such as Medieval Swordsmanship or Fior de Battalegia.
> 
> 
> \#### Testing
> Four days testing at various stat and skill levels versus various enemies or groups of enemies with a variety of armor, encumbrance, and weapons split over three iterations of the style.
> Overall findings are that the style is highly effective in one-on-one combat with brutish melee attackers and helps when dealing with high armor "miniboss" enemies, but falters rapidly when either faced by multiple enemies, not taking advantage of all the techniques, or simply outclassed by enemies that should not be fought in melee (such as a shoggoth).
> I would rate it as most closely comparable to Niten Ichi-Ryū.
> 
> 
> \#### Additional context
> The following is a Spanish research paper on the fighting style, which includes in the documentation the most complete manuscript of the original training manual I can find. For IP sake, I am linking the entire paper rather than screenshotting the training manual. The title translates approximately to "The Nine Rules of the Two Handed Sword, and the Practice of Fencing near Saragossa in 1526".
> \[LAS NUEVE REGLAS DE LA ESPADA DE DOS MANOS, Y LA PRÁCTICA DE LA ESGRIMA EN ZARAGOZA HACIA 1526\](https://gladius.revistas.csic.es/index.php/gladius/article/view/300/303)

This is similar to what you have described and could be a decent starting point.

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**Author:** ![Trilobite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/90db22/32.png) [@Trilobite](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Trilobite)\
**Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 6:23pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/berserk-martial-art-suggestions-tips/27243/3 "2021-10-29T18:23:25Z")

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Just to be clear it says Barbaran, which is a person’s name. I’m personally seeing few similarities between that style and a proposed barbarian. The style you posted has bonus blocks, disarms, and accuracy bonuses which seem like the opposite of what the OP was saying.

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**Author:** ![ThinkSome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@ThinkSome](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/ThinkSome)\
**Post date:** [October 29, 2021, 11:05pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/berserk-martial-art-suggestions-tips/27243/4 "2021-10-29T23:05:34Z")

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Weren’t the berserkers high on drugs?

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**Author:** ![discountmusketeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@discountmusketeer](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/discountmusketeer)\
**Post date:** [October 30, 2021, 7:21am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/berserk-martial-art-suggestions-tips/27243/5 "2021-10-30T07:21:40Z")

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That is one theory! Others put it down to religious fervor, spiritual possession, a genetic madness, or even just propaganda. Unfortunately they suffer the same fate as many non-literate cultures–the stories they passed down are mainly through the eyes of their literate foes, or in the case of the Eddas, their converted descendants, who viewed their ancestors with a veil of religious contempt. That said, since most of what we know of the berserkers come through these myths, I definitely intend it to fit more into the mythical martial arts style (also since I think it’s cool.)

While the Barbaran art is much more formal and defensive than what I have in mind it’s also good to have a reference for a big-weapon art beyond Fiore di Battalia, so thanks for bringing it to my attention!

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**Author:** ![Terrorforge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5e925/32.png) [@Terrorforge](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Terrorforge)\
**Post date:** [November 5, 2021, 1:12pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/berserk-martial-art-suggestions-tips/27243/6 "2021-11-05T13:12:05Z")

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In the Norse sagas at least, berserkers are defined as much if not more than their rage by their resistance to mundane weapons. It’s usually said that they cannot be harmed “by fire or iron”. That’s why they’re reckless and unarmored - they can’t be harmed. Well, until the plucky protagonist beats them to death with a tree branch or something, which seems to happen pretty regularly.

You’re of course free to go for the mindless aggression route if you want, but I think it would be a bit tricky just because of how CDDA is set up. Namely, your offensive power would have to be out of this world to justify limiting your defense. If you wanted to synthesize theae concepts, something like a stacking OnHit armor buff might so the trick. Rewarding aggression with defense.

… I wonder if martial arts can add character tags like traits and CBMs can. It would be pretty fun if the supreme capstone (like melee 10 or something) of a fantastical style like this was to give you the HEAT\_SINK tag so you were actually immune to fire

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**Author:** ![discountmusketeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f14d63/32.png) [@discountmusketeer](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/discountmusketeer)\
**Post date:** [November 6, 2021, 8:28pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/berserk-martial-art-suggestions-tips/27243/7 "2021-11-06T20:28:38Z")

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That does sound cool, but also wildly beyond my ability to implement (at least any time soon). Still, you make a good point about the offence/defense trade off, I should back it off a little bit. Here’s what I wanna go with for my first iteration:

Level 1: Passive 33% damage buff  
Levl 2: Rapid Strike  
Level 3: Brutal critical, and +1 dodge attempt  
Level 4: Spin attack, counterattack on hit  
Level 5: When hit, applies a 50% damage buff, stacks 3 times

Now I have to try and figure out how to do it in .json. It’s all pretty basic, mostly using existing parts, so I should be able to figure it out. Once I do I can continue tweaking it.

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**Author:** ![Dueu](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/dueu/32/11646_2.png) [@Dueu](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Dueu)\
**Post date:** [November 15, 2021, 8:09pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/berserk-martial-art-suggestions-tips/27243/8 "2021-11-15T20:09:52Z")

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There is not a direct way to promote an armor - less fighting in game that directly negates the benefics of martial arts but you practically anything that other martial arts does can be taken and modified into a new martial art.

You can swap the accuracy bonus of dexterity to strenght “-100% DEX accuracy, +100 STR accuracy” and have difference buffs that allows to “select” certain techniques to be used. As example you can make a buff to be activate **while moving** (max stack: 1, duration: 1) and a technique that does little damage but downs a target for 2 turns with a higher priority but requires said buff of moving, then have another technique that requires the target to be down that has increased damage.

You can just leave the martial art without any defensive technique to represent the recklessness of the style compare to others or in exchange of reducing dexterity (causing a direct decrease of dodging) you obtain armor stats plus pain resistance and add a buff that activates when you get hit that increases strenght and speed along with more devastating attacks.