# Alternative ammo loads (Bearings, Rifled Slugs, Sabots, Rockets)

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/alternative-ammo-loads-bearings-rifled-slugs-sabots-rockets/15681>\
**Category:** The Drawing Board\
**Created:** [December 19, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/alternative-ammo-loads-bearings-rifled-slugs-sabots-rockets/15681 "2017-12-19T20:06:03Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![TheZoneWizard](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/thezonewizard/32/1397_2.png) [@TheZoneWizard](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TheZoneWizard)\
**Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 11:00pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/alternative-ammo-loads-bearings-rifled-slugs-sabots-rockets/15681/21 "2018-05-30T23:00:02Z")

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What happens is the actually the same as what happens with every bullet fired out of a gun, whereby the bullet is smaller than the barrel.

The pressure gets diffused out the barrel AROUND the object/bullet and kinda farts the thing out lol

No pressure behind the object = bullet doesn’t fire. (youtube once again, 9mm in a 10mm pistol)

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**Author:** ![darktoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@darktoes](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/darktoes)\
**Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 11:47pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/alternative-ammo-loads-bearings-rifled-slugs-sabots-rockets/15681/22 "2018-05-30T23:47:14Z")

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Rifling causes friction on the bullet, slowing it down a bit. If you have a pre-rifled bullet in a smooth barrel it might go a little faster, but probably not much.

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**Author:** ![TheZoneWizard](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/thezonewizard/32/1397_2.png) [@TheZoneWizard](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TheZoneWizard)\
**Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 11:49pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/alternative-ammo-loads-bearings-rifled-slugs-sabots-rockets/15681/23 "2018-05-30T23:49:56Z")

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Yes…and no. Yes the wind resistance impacts speed. However. The rifled bullet will spin BECAUSE of the resistance and allow for the bullet to be slightly more accurate and travel further. But I am hypothesizing. Reality often works differently than on paper.

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**Author:** ![darktoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@darktoes](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/darktoes)\
**Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 11:51pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/alternative-ammo-loads-bearings-rifled-slugs-sabots-rockets/15681/24 "2018-05-30T23:51:36Z")

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Not wind resistance, the friction of the barrel on the bullet when it cuts the rifling into the bullet. I suspect a non spinning bullet would tumble enough to be worthless.

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**Author:** ![TheZoneWizard](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/thezonewizard/32/1397_2.png) [@TheZoneWizard](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TheZoneWizard)\
**Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 11:53pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/alternative-ammo-loads-bearings-rifled-slugs-sabots-rockets/15681/25 "2018-05-30T23:53:03Z")

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I think I’m getting my threads mixed a little. I responded to 2 threads. One about bearings in a shotgun and another with rifling added to bullets shot from a rifled barrel. -\_-

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**Author:** ![darktoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@darktoes](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/darktoes)\
**Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 11:54pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/alternative-ammo-loads-bearings-rifled-slugs-sabots-rockets/15681/26 "2018-05-30T23:54:07Z")

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Same thread, different people.

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**Author:** ![TheZoneWizard](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/thezonewizard/32/1397_2.png) [@TheZoneWizard](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TheZoneWizard)\
**Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 11:56pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/alternative-ammo-loads-bearings-rifled-slugs-sabots-rockets/15681/27 "2018-05-30T23:56:46Z")

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Mmmk…well in that case. A rifled bullet from a rifled barrel would marginally be different then. Not sure if at all.

Maybe even conflict. Bullet would be spinning yeah from its own rifling. So I wonder if the barrel would conflict.

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**Author:** ![darktoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@darktoes](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/darktoes)\
**Post date:** [May 30, 2018, 11:58pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/alternative-ammo-loads-bearings-rifled-slugs-sabots-rockets/15681/28 "2018-05-30T23:58:08Z")

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Depends if the rifling matches up, but the barrel will win. If the rifling is the same it might go a little faster, otherwise it will have the barrels rifling smushed over the top of its own rifling.

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**Author:** ![TheZoneWizard](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/thezonewizard/32/1397_2.png) [@TheZoneWizard](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TheZoneWizard)\
**Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/alternative-ammo-loads-bearings-rifled-slugs-sabots-rockets/15681/29 "2018-05-31T00:02:21Z")

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Running thought really…

I concur with you. I think if we wanted too in game. We could add this as a feature to skilled hands. Much the same way the guns can be “Accurized” or whatever it was spelled. The skilled character could rifle bullets in the crafting section while being made OR rifled to any bullet that is already made. The latter maybe easier to code. Plus easier to code as a mod in case people didn’t like it.

I think the bullet maybe slightly faster and able to travel further…but I am speculating. A toss up?

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**Author:** ![darktoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@darktoes](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/darktoes)\
**Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 12:03am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/alternative-ammo-loads-bearings-rifled-slugs-sabots-rockets/15681/30 "2018-05-31T00:03:16Z")

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If it were any faster it would be negligible.

More importantly, i want sabot and gyrojet rounds.

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**Author:** ![TheZoneWizard](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/thezonewizard/32/1397_2.png) [@TheZoneWizard](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TheZoneWizard)\
**Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 12:03am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/alternative-ammo-loads-bearings-rifled-slugs-sabots-rockets/15681/31 "2018-05-31T00:03:49Z")

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Sabot = dragons breath?

Gyro = what?

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**Author:** ![darktoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@darktoes](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/darktoes)\
**Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/alternative-ammo-loads-bearings-rifled-slugs-sabots-rockets/15681/32 "2018-05-31T00:14:09Z")

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Sabot means you fire a smaller bullet with a disposable casing, so you can fire little darts or faux shotgun shells from a normal rifle. Just about anything really, so long as it’s smaller than the barrel diameter.

Gyrojet rounds are an old experiment that got dropped after they weren’t tested properly. Basically instead of a gunpowder propellant you have tiny rockets, possibly with fins or rifling for stability. Basically no recoil, massive range and accuracy, but expensive to make and somewhat fragile.

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**Author:** ![TheZoneWizard](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/thezonewizard/32/1397_2.png) [@TheZoneWizard](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TheZoneWizard)\
**Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 12:18am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/alternative-ammo-loads-bearings-rifled-slugs-sabots-rockets/15681/33 "2018-05-31T00:18:36Z")

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Oh I’ve seen those gyroes on youtube. Like $8-12 a pop. Flimsy ass hell and came outa the barrel like a turd =(

Sabots sound decent but I’d be more interested in “Survivor” made case-less. Not only do they exist. Technically if they were researched more they could have been more efficient so the gun itself didn’t be so bulky. With the magic of CatDDA, we could just “fudge” it a little and add such stuff to the game. =D

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**Author:** ![darktoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@darktoes](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/darktoes)\
**Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 12:36am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/alternative-ammo-loads-bearings-rifled-slugs-sabots-rockets/15681/34 "2018-05-31T00:36:35Z")

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They didn’t make much Gyrojet ammunition, and it was a long time ago, so I wouldn’t be surprised if someone tried to make their own or just bought some expired rounds. In testing they were fast and powerful, but fairly unreliable since they were still experimental.

We have caseless ammunition, and you can make your own with a book. It’s the Rivtech gun ammunition.

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**Author:** ![TheZoneWizard](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/thezonewizard/32/1397_2.png) [@TheZoneWizard](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TheZoneWizard)\
**Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 12:49am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/alternative-ammo-loads-bearings-rifled-slugs-sabots-rockets/15681/35 "2018-05-31T00:49:19Z")

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Ahhh…I did not know this as I always remove fake weps. But maybe I shouldn’t 😉

Laters!

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 2:15am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/alternative-ammo-loads-bearings-rifled-slugs-sabots-rockets/15681/36 "2018-05-31T02:15:42Z")

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> [@Rationale for reloaded ammo being worse?](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/rationale-for-reloaded-ammo-being-worse/14676/38):
>
> Polished Steel Bearings are not anything like a slug.

Other than the fact that steel on barrel contact is bad for your gun, they’re very nearly the same performance wise, stick a wad or sabot around it and you’re good to go though.  
Being a sphere instead of a cylindrical shape, they’re slightly less aerodynamic than a typical bullet, but if it’s smoothbore it doesn’t really matter since accuracy is what’s going to limit your range.

> [@Rationale for reloaded ammo being worse?](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/rationale-for-reloaded-ammo-being-worse/14676/39):
>
> Wind resistance would spin the bullet like the barrel does, allowing it to move further. So anyone have conjecture on this?

That’s not going to change a thing, rifling grooves are way too small to engage with the airflow around a bullet, also they’re generally going to get flattened by contact with the barrel. As for engaging like rifling, the harder contact surface is the one that must have rifling, and that’s the barrel. The softer surface (the bullet) is going to get any features it has crushed by the shape of the barrel.

Gyrojets are interesting, the ones that were produced had offset jets to induce spin (hence gyro + jet), which should work in principle, but there’s one interesting problem. It seems they left the barrel so slowly that it was extremely difficult to hold the gun steady enough to keep them on target. Also the slow initial velocity left them extremely vulnerable to crosswinds. So in practice they weren’t actually that accurate.

It does make me wonder if you could use a system more like a RPG or other handheld rocket system where there’s a kicker charge to get it out of the barrel much faster and get it over that acceleration hump it needs to be really accurate. OTOH, Gyrojet was really set on it being a no recoil device, it simplified the hell out of their design, but then again, if you could make a .45 or .50 pistol with a non-locking breech and fires like a 9mm, well you’d have something.

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**Author:** ![TheZoneWizard](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/thezonewizard/32/1397_2.png) [@TheZoneWizard](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TheZoneWizard)\
**Post date:** [May 31, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/alternative-ammo-loads-bearings-rifled-slugs-sabots-rockets/15681/37 "2018-05-31T18:12:04Z")

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Bearings are less of an idea I wanted as a must have and more of a…“hmm…finding ways to use crap we already have in game” kind of thing. Would be really nice though in the beginning because it isn’t rocket science to break stuff and then stuffem down a make shift double barrel shotgun =)

How about more firecrackers? Namely the Bottle Rocket. Those little bastards down carry weight. BUT they do carry the idea. The little rocket works poorly for accuracy, however, it does set off fast and explode. Make a larger variant and add feathers/paper/ etc and mix archery with firearms and you have to add the head…maybe an arrow head? Being light and able to pierce and we have a gyrojet?

Running idea. Different than the exploding arrow/bolts. Those use bigger ammo and a “splash” for damage. But my idea is more of a bullet size gyrojet thing. It would have to be of a reasonable size too. Say your idea of .45 .50 etc. Or a home made Survivor/Fallout .223 pistol 😉

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**Author:** ![darktoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@darktoes](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/darktoes)\
**Post date:** [June 1, 2018, 4:14am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/alternative-ammo-loads-bearings-rifled-slugs-sabots-rockets/15681/38 "2018-06-01T04:14:16Z")

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Rocket arrows have been done. They’re not really… accurate…

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**Author:** ![TheZoneWizard](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/thezonewizard/32/1397_2.png) [@TheZoneWizard](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TheZoneWizard)\
**Post date:** [June 5, 2018, 6:55pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/alternative-ammo-loads-bearings-rifled-slugs-sabots-rockets/15681/39 "2018-06-05T18:55:05Z")

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Ballista? Is there another form of this? Accurate with feathered tails would be reasonably accurate.

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**Author:** ![darktoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@darktoes](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/darktoes)\
**Post date:** [June 6, 2018, 3:54am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/alternative-ammo-loads-bearings-rifled-slugs-sabots-rockets/15681/40 "2018-06-06T03:54:49Z")

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What you’re thinking of there is a missile launcher.

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