# Adjacent obstacles blocking visibility while crouching - intended?

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/adjacent-obstacles-blocking-visibility-while-crouching-intended/25524>\
**Category:** The Garage\
**Created:** [December 19, 2020, 4:12am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/adjacent-obstacles-blocking-visibility-while-crouching-intended/25524 "2020-12-19T04:12:24Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 19\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![GiggleGrassGatherer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/gigglegrassgatherer/32/7743_2.png) [@GiggleGrassGatherer](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/GiggleGrassGatherer)\
**Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 4:12am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/adjacent-obstacles-blocking-visibility-while-crouching-intended/25524/1 "2020-12-19T04:12:24Z")

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1. I’m crouching adjacent to the vehicle. Sight is blocked.  

2. still crouching, still near the vehicle but just one tile away. Sight is _not_ blocked whatsoever.  

So, how come I can perfectly see over the vehicle if I’m just one meter away from it but as soon as I’m adjacent to it, it is suddenly fully blocking my view? What’s the reasoning here? Shouldn’t obstacles block view even if they are not adjacent to you?

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**Author:** ![spicyshadow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5e9695/32.png) [@spicyshadow](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/spicyshadow)\
**Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 9:06am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/adjacent-obstacles-blocking-visibility-while-crouching-intended/25524/2 "2020-12-19T09:06:40Z")

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Yes that is a intended feature. This works also for windows and other obstacles allowing you to hide behind them.

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**Author:** ![GiggleGrassGatherer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/gigglegrassgatherer/32/7743_2.png) [@GiggleGrassGatherer](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/GiggleGrassGatherer)\
**Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 11:05am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/adjacent-obstacles-blocking-visibility-while-crouching-intended/25524/3 "2020-12-19T11:05:51Z")

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I thought obstacles work regardless of if you are near them or not, as long as they were in LoS between you and zombies. The question is, why do they block my LoS only at adjacent tiles instead of everywhere.

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**Author:** ![Zhilkin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zhilkin/32/3749_2.png) [@Zhilkin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Zhilkin)\
**Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 11:32am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/adjacent-obstacles-blocking-visibility-while-crouching-intended/25524/4 "2020-12-19T11:32:54Z")

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Because it is coded that way.

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**Author:** ![GiggleGrassGatherer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/gigglegrassgatherer/32/7743_2.png) [@GiggleGrassGatherer](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/GiggleGrassGatherer)\
**Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 11:46am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/adjacent-obstacles-blocking-visibility-while-crouching-intended/25524/5 "2020-12-19T11:46:15Z")

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ugh… is it intended to be this way or is it not but was coded this way because it was easier to do?

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**Author:** ![Valase](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/valase/32/6972_2.png) [@Valase](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Valase)\
**Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 4:54pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/adjacent-obstacles-blocking-visibility-while-crouching-intended/25524/6 "2020-12-19T16:54:51Z")

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> [@GiggleGrassGatherer](#):
>
> The question is, why do they block my LoS only at adjacent tiles instead of everywhere.

Because you duck behind the cover. You can’t do that if you are a few meters away\*… At least that’s my explanation for it.

> [@GiggleGrassGatherer](#):
>
> […] was coded this way because it was easier to do?

I’d think it was harder to code it that way (since it has to be specifically coded instead of going by the existing “solids arn’t seethrough” code part), hence I assume this is intended.

* * *

\*If there’s someone with you, you can try it out yourself. Place a box or some cardboard (with dimensions about the half height of the person you’re trying to hide) or something similar in the middle of the room and tell the other person to crouch behind it (right next to it). Position yourself approximatly 2 meters / 6 feet from the obstacle.  
If done right, you shouldn’t be able to see the other person (or just barely).  
Now try this again, but tell the other person to crouch 1 meter / 3 feet away from the obstacle, while maintaining your position, and try to see if you can spot them…

If you’re alone, place a mirror (or anything really) at head hight 2 meters away and take cover yourself and see if you can hide from it.

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**Author:** ![GiggleGrassGatherer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/gigglegrassgatherer/32/7743_2.png) [@GiggleGrassGatherer](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/GiggleGrassGatherer)\
**Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 5:30pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/adjacent-obstacles-blocking-visibility-while-crouching-intended/25524/7 "2020-12-19T17:30:31Z")

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> [@Valase](#):
>
> Because you duck behind the cover.

if I duck 1 meter behind the cover it should not be transparent to me if it isn’t while I’m adjacent to it. Or it should be transparent regardless of the distance, one or the other.

> [@Valase](#):
>
> You can’t do that if you are a few meters away

Yeah, it’s kinda hard to duck a few meters behind the cover so that you can see through it, I agree. Especially when the same ducking should result in not seeing through the cover while you are adjacent to it 🙂

> [@Valase](#):
>
> If there’s someone with you, you can try it out yourself\<…\>

Yeah, right, as if the game goes into that much detail while calculating visibility (if only…)

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**Author:** ![Valase](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/valase/32/6972_2.png) [@Valase](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Valase)\
**Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 7:25pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/adjacent-obstacles-blocking-visibility-while-crouching-intended/25524/8 "2020-12-19T19:25:56Z")

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> [@GiggleGrassGatherer](#):
>
> if I duck 1 meter behind the cover it should not be transparent to me […]

No, it should not be “transparent”, but you’d still be able to see the monster that **stands upright** next to it or behind it.

![Visibility_for_dummies](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/cataclysmdda/original/2X/c/cdfaf943a2b301f73be925f95354728f5f1e6e0f.png)

Yes, technically you should not be able to see what’s on the floor of that tile behind. However, there’s no mechanic that hides small items on the floor but shows the monster of appropiate height - yet.

> [@GiggleGrassGatherer](#):
>
> Yeah, it’s kinda hard to duck a few meters behind the cover so that you can see through it, I agree.

Are you sure that deliberately misinterpreting / knowingly misrepresent my statement will get you an answer to your question? Because all it does is pissing me off, so I have to assume that’s your real goal. “Congratulation” on reaching it 😐 .

But sure… I can play that game too…:

> [@GiggleGrassGatherer](#):
>
> Yeah, right, as if the game goes into that much detail while calculating visibility (if only…)

Oh, so you don’t want that the game calculates visibility realistically? Yeah, that would be a really bad and silly thing to do… Of course; nobody wants such things simulated - how could anyone _dare_ to do this…?

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**Author:** ![zantanzuken](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zantanzuken/32/10325_2.png) [@zantanzuken](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/zantanzuken)\
**Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 8:20pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/adjacent-obstacles-blocking-visibility-while-crouching-intended/25524/9 "2020-12-19T20:20:44Z")

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i would understand if you had an issue, say, not being able to see when crouched behind a bicycle… but if you’re doing something like a car door (quarterpanel, what have you) then you’re behind it.

assume that when you’re not DIRECTLY blocked by the vehicle (by being right next to it) you can see everything around if you were to position yourself correctly (including say, jumping to see whats on the other side of the car) and hence your vision isnt blocked.

i always assumed every square in cata is equivalent to about 3-5 meters anyway (plus or minus some because giant things can stand in one square… but i use my imagination.)

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**Author:** ![Valase](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/valase/32/6972_2.png) [@Valase](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Valase)\
**Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 10:23pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/adjacent-obstacles-blocking-visibility-while-crouching-intended/25524/10 "2020-12-19T22:23:01Z")

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> [@zantanzuken](#):
>
> i always assumed every square in cata is equivalent to about 3-5 meters […]

3-5 feet or really meters?  
Meters would mean that a bicycle would measure 9+ meters and a street would be at least 48 meters wide…  
But sizes in Cataclysm DDA are weird anyway… so I guess anything would be right for one thing and wrong for another at the same time 🤷‍♂️ …

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**Author:** ![Profugo\_Barbatus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d26b3c/32.png) [@Profugo\_Barbatus](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Profugo_Barbatus)\
**Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 10:42pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/adjacent-obstacles-blocking-visibility-while-crouching-intended/25524/11 "2020-12-19T22:42:09Z")

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Considering an Average Human has a driving skill of 0, 48m roads was probably a good idea in the pre apocalyptic days.

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**Author:** ![zantanzuken](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zantanzuken/32/10325_2.png) [@zantanzuken](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/zantanzuken)\
**Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 11:08pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/adjacent-obstacles-blocking-visibility-while-crouching-intended/25524/12 "2020-12-19T23:08:56Z")

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i mean yeah the measurements on it would be a bit weird… but just as an example, every block in minecraft is 3 meters as well… a bike -should- fit in slightly under or over 1 meter, but the way the vehicle system works makes it 3 tiles long.

… but also a moose fits in 1 tile, as does larger things.

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**Author:** ![Valase](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/valase/32/6972_2.png) [@Valase](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Valase)\
**Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 11:15pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/adjacent-obstacles-blocking-visibility-while-crouching-intended/25524/13 "2020-12-19T23:15:29Z")

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> [@zantanzuken](#):
>
> but just as an example, every block in minecraft is 3 meters as well…

Nope, they are actually exactly one cubic meter.

> [@Minecraft wiki](#):
>
> Blocks are arranged in a 3-dimensional grid of **1-cubic-meter** cells. Each cell usually contains exactly one block; exceptions exist in the form of slabs, vines, snow layers, turtle eggs and sea pickles.

It works relatively well, as Steve can fit through 1.5 block high gaps (or at least he did when I played it a while ago; around version 1.8?)…

> [@zantanzuken](#):
>
> … but also a moose fits in 1 tile, as does larger things.

And multiple squirrels still takes up 1 tile each… That’s what I ment with “weird” sizes…  
But I understand why it has to work like that - codewise it’s fine. And everyone can imagine it their way, so it’s perfect 😀 …

> [@Profugo\_Barbatus](#):
>
> […] [With] driving skill of 0, 48m roads was probably a good idea […]

Oh… oh yes, that makes sense now…

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**Author:** ![zantanzuken](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zantanzuken/32/10325_2.png) [@zantanzuken](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/zantanzuken)\
**Post date:** [December 19, 2020, 11:19pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/adjacent-obstacles-blocking-visibility-while-crouching-intended/25524/14 "2020-12-19T23:19:02Z")

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oh. EH i guess i’m remembering things wrong. then mabye its more accurate to assume every square in cata is 1 meter? plus or minus whatever.

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**Author:** ![GiggleGrassGatherer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/gigglegrassgatherer/32/7743_2.png) [@GiggleGrassGatherer](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/GiggleGrassGatherer)\
**Post date:** [December 20, 2020, 4:05am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/adjacent-obstacles-blocking-visibility-while-crouching-intended/25524/15 "2020-12-20T04:05:04Z")

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> [@Valase](#):
>
> Yes, technically you should not be able to see what’s on the floor of that tile behind. However, there’s no mechanic that hides small items on the floor but shows the monster of appropiate height - yet.

I just don’t understand what is the point implementing current visibility blocking behavior instead of that. Oh well, seems like everyone is fine with it.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![zantanzuken](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zantanzuken/32/10325_2.png) [@zantanzuken](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/zantanzuken)\
**Post date:** [December 20, 2020, 5:21am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/adjacent-obstacles-blocking-visibility-while-crouching-intended/25524/16 "2020-12-20T05:21:19Z")

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well, in the same respect, if you cant see over the thing you’re hiding behind, it also breaks line of sight with zombies on the other side of the vehicle.

… i believe thats more or less the point of it, but also, it’d be difficult to get away from a zombie this way as they would still move towards the last place they saw you.

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**Author:** ![Profugo\_Barbatus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d26b3c/32.png) [@Profugo\_Barbatus](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Profugo_Barbatus)\
**Post date:** [December 20, 2020, 7:54am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/adjacent-obstacles-blocking-visibility-while-crouching-intended/25524/17 "2020-12-20T07:54:06Z")

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Doesn’t just have to be stealth against zombies wandering up. Enemies with ranged attacks, particularly NPC’s can also be temporarily dissuaded from attacking with this. Gaining a few tiles of movement towards better cover as you shimmy along a car, while also letting you recover a bit of stamina to make a break for it can certainly be useful.

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**Author:** ![Zhilkin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zhilkin/32/3749_2.png) [@Zhilkin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Zhilkin)\
**Post date:** [December 20, 2020, 9:39am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/adjacent-obstacles-blocking-visibility-while-crouching-intended/25524/18 "2020-12-20T09:39:25Z")

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Objects do not have height.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Zhilkin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zhilkin/32/3749_2.png) [@Zhilkin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Zhilkin)\
**Post date:** [December 20, 2020, 9:50am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/adjacent-obstacles-blocking-visibility-while-crouching-intended/25524/19 "2020-12-20T09:50:12Z")

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Tile dimensions are different in different contexts.