# \[0xB\] Alchemy: Bleach, Salt

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/0xb-alchemy-bleach-salt/8237>\
**Category:** The Garage\
**Created:** [December 8, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/0xb-alchemy-bleach-salt/8237 "2014-12-08T20:53:39Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 11\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![EditorRUS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9fc29f/32.png) [@EditorRUS](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/EditorRUS)\
**Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/0xb-alchemy-bleach-salt/8237/1 "2014-12-08T20:53:39Z")

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8 salt: 2 bleach, 50 charge, 1 clean water --\>  
8 salt water: 8 salt, 8 clean water --\>  
4 bleach: 8 salt water, 200 charge --\>  
16 salt: 4 bleach, 100 charge, 2 clean water --\>  
16 salt water: 16 salt, 16 clean water --\>  
8 bleach: 16 salt water, 400 charge --\>  
32 salt: 8 bleach, 200 charge, 4 clean water --\> …

Non-restorable reagents: clean water, charge  
Product: Twice more of salt, bleach, salt water

So you transmutate clean water and charge to bleach and salt.  
That makes it possible to obtain infinite amount of oxidizer powder, fungicide, superglue given infinite amount of charge and clean water. Since clean water is easy to get too (pools are infinite), the only matter is charge. And charge can be obtained easily TOO, by using solar panels.  
So we basically can make oxidizer powder, fungicide, bleach, superglue, salt out of nothing except pool water and solar energy.

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**Author:** ![Valpo](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/valpo/32/341_2.png) [@Valpo](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Valpo)\
**Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/0xb-alchemy-bleach-salt/8237/2 "2014-12-08T21:08:33Z")

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Its faster to craft bleach directly from saltwater found in infinite ammounts in swamps.  
This isn t realy that huge of a problem. But for the sake of inner logic i support a sound crafting mechanic.  
Its just not a sever problem as its not exploitable well. And nobody would do this if he had any other salt source nearby aka swamp.

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**Author:** ![EditorRUS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9fc29f/32.png) [@EditorRUS](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/EditorRUS)\
**Post date:** [December 8, 2014, 9:13pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/0xb-alchemy-bleach-salt/8237/3 "2014-12-08T21:13:33Z")

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Well, this, erm, feature can be easily solved by doubling amount of salt water needed to craft bleach.

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**Author:** ![EkarusRyndren](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/ekarusryndren/32/80_2.png) [@EkarusRyndren](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/EkarusRyndren)\
**Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 3:53am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/0xb-alchemy-bleach-salt/8237/4 "2014-12-09T03:53:39Z")

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It takes a painful amount of time to craft that and frankly if you want to spend a real day grinding so that you have access to a mountain of fungicide when a dab will do yah and it /spawns/ in stacks of 400…

Well, you’ve reached Government levels of time-wasting so… More power to you I guess.

Still, I suppose it’s worth fixing.

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**Author:** ![Valpo](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/valpo/32/341_2.png) [@Valpo](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Valpo)\
**Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/0xb-alchemy-bleach-salt/8237/5 "2014-12-09T18:13:16Z")

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i filled a 208 litter barrel with handcrafted bleach \>.\>. that took lik 40 ish days.

Beat me on time wasting.

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**Author:** ![Rivet](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/rivet/32/11_2.png) [@Rivet](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Rivet)\
**Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 12:27am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/0xb-alchemy-bleach-salt/8237/6 "2014-12-10T00:27:38Z")

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This behaviour is intentional; if you’ve got sufficient base materials and the right list of tools and equipment you can basically start up your own little chemical processing plant, and once you’re to that point it’s no longer a matter of ‘unbalanced’ so much as ‘hard earned’.

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**Author:** ![grisamentum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/65b543/32.png) [@grisamentum](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/grisamentum)\
**Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/0xb-alchemy-bleach-salt/8237/7 "2014-12-10T15:46:16Z")

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> [@Rivet](#):
>
> This behaviour is intentional; if you’ve got sufficient base materials and the right list of tools and equipment you can basically start up your own little chemical processing plant, and once you’re to that point it’s no longer a matter of ‘unbalanced’ so much as ‘hard earned’.

I think you should rethink this. It’s basically on par with that old “you cut your leather patch into 2 leather patches” bug.

Really, infinite crafting loops that produce something from nothing should not be a reward for players.

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**Author:** ![Snaaty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@Snaaty](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Snaaty)\
**Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 8:45pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/0xb-alchemy-bleach-salt/8237/8 "2014-12-10T20:45:52Z")

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> I think you should rethink this. It's basically on par with that old "you cut your leather patch into 2 leather patches" bug.
> 
> Really, infinite crafting loops that produce something from nothing should not be a reward for players.

With the one and deciding difference being here that you’d have to invest horrendous amounts of time into actually creating a metric fuckton of bleach, whereas cutting up leather was really quick.

The “reward” is both in-game and not at the same time, as someone who can reliably feed himself and keep himself safe for doing long crafting sessions has probably already fought of three zombie bears with only his pocket knife.

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**Author:** ![Valpo](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/valpo/32/341_2.png) [@Valpo](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Valpo)\
**Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/0xb-alchemy-bleach-salt/8237/9 "2014-12-10T20:52:38Z")

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[quote=“Snaaty, post:8, topic:8237”]

> I think you should rethink this. It’s basically on par with that old “you cut your leather patch into 2 leather patches” bug.
> 
> Really, infinite crafting loops that produce something from nothing should not be a reward for players.

With the one and deciding difference being here that you’d have to invest horrendous amounts of time into actually creating a metric fuckton of bleach, whereas cutting up leather was really quick.

The “reward” is both in-game and not at the same time, as someone who can reliably feed himself and keep himself safe for doing long crafting sessions has probably already fought of three zombie bears with only his pocket knife.[/quote]

As someone who has crafted 208 liters of bleach i can say that its even when not using this weird mechanic still MUCH faster to simply go raid a lab to get that needed bleach.  
And if you don t have any nearby finding a swamp for unlimited saltwater should be much easier then doin this crafting cycle.  
Its totaly unreasonable to exploit this in most cases imo.  
Yet for realism sake i still support a change regardless.

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**Author:** ![KA101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/278dde/32.png) [@KA101](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/KA101)\
**Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 11:27pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/0xb-alchemy-bleach-salt/8237/10 "2014-12-10T23:27:25Z")

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Burning clean water and power to create stuff seems like a reasonable use of the crafting system. You’re not creating stuff from nothing.

I’m not seeing anything that needs changed here.

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**Author:** ![EditorRUS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9fc29f/32.png) [@EditorRUS](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/EditorRUS)\
**Post date:** [December 11, 2014, 12:43pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/0xb-alchemy-bleach-salt/8237/11 "2014-12-11T12:43:58Z")

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> Burning clean water and power to create stuff seems like a reasonable use of the crafting system. You're not creating stuff from nothing.

Well, if we talk about thermonuclear synthesis...